Amsoil Vs Mobil 1

[TooSlick]

Patman,

This extended drain test was run with a Gulf Coast by-pass filter - not exactly a good example.

With this setup, the TP elements are typically changed every 3k-5k miles and a quart of fresh oil is added each time. Heck, I could run any Group II petroleum oil with this setup and get 20,000 miles out of it. You are essentially doing a continual oil change with the Gulf Coast system, as Bob himself has pointed out.

Show me an instance where Mobil 1 was run for 15k-20k miles with just a full flow filter change and topoff halfway through - and no other makeup oil added. I do that all the time - in fact I often run the same oil for two full years in my Toyota, since I only put about 10k/year on the engine.

It is true that you can run Mobil 1 for 10k-15k in the new BMW and Mercedes engines with the flexible service schedule. However, those engines are designed to hold 7.5-8.0 quarts of oil, so there is much less stress on it ....

 

[mdv]

quote:

---

Originally posted by XHVI:
Very good point. Castrol does indeed make the factory fill oil for BMW, but it's not the same oil available in the North American retail market. And the Castrol available at the BMW dealer is 5w40. Ever see that on the shelf at Wal-Mart?

Syntec is probably an okay oil, but I think it's very telling that the castrolusa.com web site doesn't list ANY of Syntec's specs

, hence they prevent the consumer from directy comparing their product to other oils based on simple things like pour point, flash point, viscosity index, etc.[/QB]

---

Where are you finding 5W-40 at a BMW dealer? The only one's around me in the Boston area carry 5W-30 and 10W-60. I've never heard of the 5W-40.

I would agree that Syntec is an okay oil. For the money, there are oils that are much better. Even Castrol's own GTX seems to hold up much better than the Syntec in actual use. Like you, I also have an issue that you can't access any information on the website. It leads me to believe they are hiding something.

[ November 18, 2002, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: mdv ]

 

[buster]

I really believe after reading all the data, that Amsoil is a better oil. Not by much, but it is better. I just ordered there series 2000 0w-30 oil (35K) drain intervals. I won't take it that far, but this oil is apparently the best out there right now. I don't doubt Amsoil is a great oil, even if there marketing is not the greatest. 12qts cost me $84, $7 a quart. Thats $2 more then Mobil 1 which doesnt have the backbone to state there oil can go farther then the manufacturers recommendation. I don't blame them to a certain degree, especially with Toyota sludge problems. There oil can definitely go further then 3K, more like 10k with ease, but they don't sound as confindent as Amsoil does. They don't have the additive package Amsoil uses. If Mobil wanted to get with it, they would do what Amoil does and test there competitors oil. But they don't. All they do is claim "Nothing outperforms Mobil 1".....that means nothing to me or anyone. Data speaks for itself. Mobil 1 is a great oil, probably second best. I decided to go with the 0w-30 because of the good prices they are running right now. Plus, with all the miles I drive, i don't want to be changing the oil every month in the heart of winter! Amsoil is the real deal. There air filters are garbage though so stay away from them.

Great, I just read some of the results of someone with a suburu using Asmoil and everyone said they were horrible. So what is the deal with Amsoil? Is it good or not? Did I waste my money today?

[ November 18, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[vettenuts]

Buster, I am just as confused as you at this point. I have 7 qts of 5W-30 (ASL) in my basement waiting to go in my new LS-1, but now I am wondering if I should put it in or look for another oil. I am going to send the current batch out for analysis, but the next fill needs to go for a year so I want to do it right. The analysis section has several questionable results on Amsoil so I am totally confused at this point. arrgghhhhh

 

[Pablo]

Can I see the link to the bad Subaru results?

Buster and Vettenuts - please, you did NOT waste your money. The oil is great oil. It's not the savior of all things wrong in the world - but it is worth the money. Put it in your cars. Analyze the oil at 5K or 7.5K or 10K....

There is a lot of talk both ways - some real negative stuff along with some real hype. I don't even know who you bought the oil from, nor do I really care - I just want you to use your own judgement.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I don't doubt Amsoil is a great oil, even if there marketing is not the greatest. 12qts cost me $84, $7 a quart. Thats $2 more then Mobil 1 which doesnt have the backbone to state there oil can go farther then the manufacturers recommendation.

---

Well, if you dig around on the Mobil 1 web site, you will find that they do make eliptical statements about extended drain intervals. But Mobil has several lucrative OEM factory fill contracts, so they aren't going to start suggesting that owners leave the oil in their cars for longer than the manufacturers recommend.

However, here is food for thought: Mobil 1 0w40 meets Mercedes 229.3 specs, and any oil that gets on this list must (according to Mercedes) be good for at least 25,000 mile drain intervals. In addition, the 0w40 has just been added to the 229.5 list, which requires even LONGER drain interval capability--up to 35,000 miles. The other oils on the 229.5 list are:

Aral SuperTronic M SAE 5w30
Elf Excellium 229.5 5w30
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB SAE 5w30
Shell Helix Ultra AB SAE 5w30
Total Quartz 229.5 5w30

 

[buster]

Can anyone help me with this? I've read the results and I'm not very impressed with some of them. Based on Amsoil's numbers, there series 2000 0w-30 is better then Mobil 1's super sync.... I guess the bottom line is that both are great. I spent $84 though on 12qts of there 0w-30 so i hope it's worth it....if not, i'll go back to M1.

[ November 18, 2002, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[metroplex]

I read somewhere that foam filters flow less air than paper filters when clogged, in addition the foam filters allow more dirt through.

I use foam filters exclusively on my PC at home because its plentiful, cheap, and easy to clean.

I always notice a thick layer of dust on the outside of the filter as well as inside my case - so its not going to be completely foolproof.

Paper filters filter air the best but at the cost of significant decrease in airflow as it gets dirty.

Oiled cotton gauze comes second in filtration efficiency but they flow a lot of air even when clogged. The common misconception is that you get +15 hp w/ the addition of a K&N-style filter.

The truth is, a clean K&N will perform like a clean paper filter. But as the paper filter's airflow drops, the K&N stays strong - even till the end where it flows comparably to a clean paper filter - which is WHY they advertise 800+ cfm numbers for a clean K&N-style filter. A clean K&N-style filter WILL outflow a clean paper, which means that a dirty K&N can flow close to a clean paper. Essentially you "gain" horsepower by doing this because as time goes by the engine still grabs enough air. Its not a black/white deal with the K&N, but I somewhat understand the concept.

Oiled foam filters are the worst. They still let a lot of gunk through and once they clog the airflow drops much faster than a standard paper filter. In addition you run the risk of oil coming off of the foam onto MAF wires (much more so than K&N-style due to the nature of foam materials).

Amsoil, to me, is nothing but well marketed products. In my experience, well marketed products are usually trash compared to less expensive OTC stuff.

Case in point: Tripledge Wiper Blades. Super well marketed products. Are they better than Anco's?

Spec wise- yes. Tripledge uses Jamak Silicone rubber which lasts a lot longer than natural rubber.
Anco uses natural rubber.

But when you use them in real life, Ancos are less chattery, clean better, and are less expensive.

I would believe Mobil 1 to be superior in every way considering racers prefer M1, and high performance autos all use M1 from the factory.
The only gripe I have about M1 is the price.

The Wal-Mart and Pep Boys/Autozone in Northeast NJ do not carry M1 at under $4/qt. It just doesn't exist at under that price here in NE New Jersey.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by metroplex:
The Wal-Mart and Pep Boys/Autozone in Northeast NJ do not carry M1 at under $4/qt. It just doesn't exist at under that price here in NE New Jersey.

---

Don't feel bad. The only way to get Mobil 1 for less than $4/qt here in SC is to buy it in the 5qt jugs at Wal-Mart (when they have it) for $17.88. In qt bottles, Mobil 1 is the most expensive synthetic at my Wal-Mart. (Syntec used to be the most expensive). The Rotella T Synthetic that I'm trying now is $12.88 in the gallon jug and $3.25 in the qt bottles, making it the least expensive name-brand synthetic.

 

[Pablo]

quote:

---

I read somewhere that foam filters flow less air than paper filters when clogged, in addition the foam filters allow more dirt through.

---

quote:

---

Oiled foam filters are the worst. They still let a lot of gunk through...

---

Can I have data on this, please? The numbers just don't back this up.

Oil Analysis with Amsoil Foam AF

My own turbo with a foam Air Filter

 

[vettenuts]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
Can anyone help me with this? I've read the results and I'm not very impressed with some of them. Based on Amsoil's numbers, there series 2000 0w-30 is better then Mobil 1's super sync.... I guess the bottom line is that both are great. I spent $84 though on 12qts of there 0w-30 so i hope it's worth it....if not, i'll go back to M1.

---

I still like Amsoil's high temperature viscosity numbers much better then M1.

 

[TooSlick]

If anybody actually knew what goes on in this industry, they'd realize how silly this Amsoil vs Mobil 1 stuff really is. Amsoil has been buying PAO basestocks from Mobil for about 25 years and now that Castrol is using Group III stocks, they are no doubt Mobils largest customer of PAO basestocks. In other words, if Amsoil sells more oil, then Mobil sells more PAO basestock. Keep in mind I'm not just talking about engine oils, but also the synthetic compressor oils,hydraulic fluids and industrial gear lubes that Amsoil sells in 55 gallon drums and 275 gallons totes. So if Amsoil tweaks Mobil once in a while about the relative merits of their products,they really don't mind, as they have been in bed together for over two decades.

Amsoil held their direct jobbers convention last spring up in Superior, WI. Guess what corporation paid for the seven course dinner for all the Amsoil dealers? Yes, it was ExxonMobil ...this may seem strange until you realize that Amsoil buys over a million gallons of PAO per year and that number goes up constantly. In addition to ExxonMobil, Amsoil works with Lubrizol to develop their additive chemistries and they purchase shear stable, VI modifiers from Royal Dutch Shell - their "ShellVis" product is a known quantity in the industry. Amsoil also buys very high quality ester basestocks from several suppliers. In other words, they purchase the best raw materials currently available and put together the best synthetics they know how to make. There is no secret at all to what Amsoil does, it simply comes down to how much money you want to put into the formulation.

Could Mobil make an even better synthetic than they do now? Yes, absolutely - they do sell better and more expensive synlubes in Europe and always have. Keep in mind however, that drain intervals in Europe are now in the 20,000km-30,000km range. Mobil would have to charge more for their Mobil 1 product if they did this in the US and sales would go down significantly. Want proof? Most of the so called "oil experts" on this site will tell you that the ACEA A3/B4 rated, Mobil 1, 0w-40 is their best oil. So why are so few of them actually using it? Well, they have to pay $5.00/qt for the stuff at Autozone instead of waiting for the M1, 5w-30 to go in sale for $17.99/5 qt jug at Walmart. Synthetics in the US have turned into a commodity market and that market has decided that they should sell for about $4.00/qt, or better yet, less than that on sale.

Mobil is never going to make a better oil until standard drain intervals increase to the point where it is worthwhile to do so, or they start advertising extended drain intervals once again. Given the legal climate in the US, they simply don't want the product liability associated with pushing extended drains - and they'd sell less oil that way. Heck, they are already making the best OTS synthetic in the $4.00-$4.50/qt range, so why put more money into their formulations just to make "Patman" happy? Ain't gonna happen ....

I do think that Delvac 1, 5w-40 is an even better oil than Mobil 1, but it sells for approx $22.00-$24.00/gallon at truckstops. So they can afford to use higher quality basestocks and a more robust additive chemstry in this formulation.

TooSlick

 

[Patman]

Hey, how did my name get dragged into this?

 

[TooSlick]

Patman,

Consider being mentioned in one of my posts as your "fifteen minutes of fame"

It's all downhill from here, buddy ....

Ted

 

[Patman]

Hehe, thanks Ted!

Honestly, I really don't hate Amsoil, even though it sometimes comes across that way in my posts. I do think that their advertising could use a little "fine tuning" though.

 

[TooSlick]

Patman,

On that, I agree with you ....However, the kind of engineering based stuff you'd like to see would bore most folks to tears, or they simply would not understand it. So the advertising is dumbed down to the level of all other types of advertising. Amsoil does a better job with their commercial advertising in the various industry trade magazines like Lubes and Greases.

I would also like to see more professionalism out of their dealer network, but that's a whole other issue. That's why I mainly work alone on this stuff - I don't want some Yahoo out there saying things that reflect on me ....

Ted

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:
If anybody actually knew what goes on in this industry, they'd realize how silly this Amsoil vs Mobil 1 stuff really is.

---

I'm still bothered by the fact that Amsoil doesn't get API cert for all its oils. If they truly buy over a million gallons of PAO from Exxon a year, then they are not just a little "Mom and Pop" oil company that can't afford the tests.

And I don't buy their EP additive explanation as the reason they don't get API cert. The phosphorous levels in their oils would only prevent getting the GF-3 rating, not "SL". There are plenty of oils full of ZDDP that get the API "SL" rating but not the GF-3.

Amsoil is probably fine oil and using it probably won't hurt anyone's engine. But something just isn't right when the (supposedly) "best" synthetic oil available isn't approved and tested against the same industry standard tests that the other syns on the market are. JMHO

 

[Mike_dup1]

quote:

---

I'm still bothered by the fact that Amsoil doesn't get API cert for all its oils. If they truly buy over a million gallons of PAO from Exxon a year, then they are not just a little "Mom and Pop" oil company that can't afford the tests. And I don't buy their EP additive explanation as the reason they don't get API cert. The phosphorous levels in their oils would only prevent getting the GF-3 rating, not "SL". There are plenty of oils full of ZDDP that get the API "SL" rating but not the GF-3.

Amsoil is probably fine oil and using it probably won't hurt anyone's engine. But something just isn't right when the (supposedly) "best" synthetic oil available isn't approved and tested against the same industry standard tests that the other syns on the market are. JMHO

---

Correct me if I am wrong but API = American Petroleum Institute? Key word to me is Petroleum.

So if your a producer of synthetic lubricants why does it matter if API certifies it or not. From the web site it says something to the effect that if that is important to you then you have a choice of the XL500 oils which the paid to be API certified.

Its akin to having to become certified as a teacher to give directions.

I have used them for 25 yrs and never once cared about API certification. Means nothing to me. I never had had any problems in any of my vehicles and I change oil once a year.

 

[satterfi]

XHVI

You sure have a hard-on for API certification.

If it's so important to you, then don't buy Amsoil, Redline, or others that don't pass your personal requirements.

Trying to cast doubt on products just because they don't play ball with the API doesn't fly with an educated crowd.

IMO, I think API certification is a bunch of crap. It limits companies from tinkering with their products to improve them. I read some where that certification costs were a minimum of $30,000. No big deal to Mobil, but Amsoil or Redline might think otherwise.