Amsoil Las Vegas Tax Cab Field Study

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Amsoil is too inconvenient to buy. Sorry guys.


I disagree. "Inconvenient" is trying to find Pennzoil Ultra at Wal-mart in the 0w-20 viscosity. Inconvenient is trying to find PU when it's allegedly on sale for less than $27. "Inconvenient" is finding it at AutoZone for a mere $9.59 per quart.

"Convenient" is having my Amsoil order shipped to me the same day I order it online and have it arrive the next day. And "convenient" is paying (with shipping) less than you're paying for Royal Purple.


If you can't figure out how to buy synthetic locally then yes, you should do that. LOL

 

[dkryan]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: dkryan
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Amsoil is too inconvenient to buy. Sorry guys.


I disagree. "Inconvenient" is trying to find Pennzoil Ultra at Wal-mart in the 0w-20 viscosity. Inconvenient is trying to find PU when it's allegedly on sale for less than $27. "Inconvenient" is finding it at AutoZone for a mere $9.59 per quart.

"Convenient" is having my Amsoil order shipped to me the same day I order it online and have it arrive the next day. And "convenient" is paying (with shipping) less than you're paying for Royal Purple.




If you can't figure out how to buy synthetic locally then yes, you should do that. LOL



You can't buy locally what isn't stocked by the retailer. And I 'm referring to Ultra.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: dkryan
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Amsoil is too inconvenient to buy. Sorry guys.


I disagree. "Inconvenient" is trying to find Pennzoil Ultra at Wal-mart in the 0w-20 viscosity. Inconvenient is trying to find PU when it's allegedly on sale for less than $27. "Inconvenient" is finding it at AutoZone for a mere $9.59 per quart.

"Convenient" is having my Amsoil order shipped to me the same day I order it online and have it arrive the next day. And "convenient" is paying (with shipping) less than you're paying for Royal Purple.




If you can't figure out how to buy synthetic locally then yes, you should do that. LOL



You can't buy locally what isn't stocked by the retailer. And I 'm referring to Ultra.


That's why I don't buy it. the synthetic walmart or an auto parts sell is just fine.

 

[bustednutz]

I've used Amsoil, Redline, PP,PU, M1, QS Ultra, Valvoline Syn, MC Synblend, Castrol Edge, etc.......... Tried em all.

I'm over it now. I buy NAPA at 3.49/qt on sale. run it 6 months, and change it out.
Right now its $19.99 for 5 quarts of NAPA Synthetic and a NAPA silver filter. I'll take it.
In, out, done.
No more oil hoarding or obsessing.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: FowVay
Why don't they ever do these severe tests with ice cold engines where start-up wear is supposed to be the greatest? That would seem to be where you'd get the most benefit if the fluid truly is a better lubricant.

Or, how about doing 60,000 mile drain intervals on vehicles operated on the autobahn where redline is encountered 50% of the time, fuel burn rates are at their highest, and heat generation is far great than sitting in the desert idling. Something that is averaging 14 mph for the duration of the test just doesn't seem that stressful to me?

I guess it served their purpose though.


I'd love to see them put it up against Porsche engineers in a 911T in German driven by a lead footed German who commutes to work everyday.

Since it doesn't carry Porsche spec's or any other German specs as far as I remember last time I checked, Amsoil just claims it meets them...would love to see their claim put to the test over 150km or so than let the P car engineers take it apart and see what they think.

 

[147_Grain]

Amsoil already knows that the 0W-20 Signature Series oil performs very well in cold temps. What they needed to confirm was how well a thin high-quality oil would hold-up under torcher-test-like conditions in the heat (the weak area of a 20-weight oil).

 

[Y_K]

Nobody picked up they ran fewer miles between changes than in Mobil 1 Las Vegas taxi test..

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
Nobody picked up they ran fewer miles between changes than in Mobil 1 Las Vegas taxi test..


I thought M1 test was 15K miles?

Quote:

Engine Comparison
After 105,000 miles of severe taxi service with oil change intervals every 15,000 miles, the Chrysler 2.7 V-6 engine (left) that used Mobil 1


Quote:
Motor oil in the test vehicles was scheduled to be changed at a minimum of 900-hour intervals. The actual oi
change intervals of the vehicle reported in this study were 1,005 hours (approximately 15,000 miles). Trans-
mission fluid was not changed in any of the vehicles.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
What they needed to confirm was how well a thin high-quality oil would hold-up under torcher-test-like conditions in the heat (the weak area of a 20-weight oil).


Hogwash. Unless the taxis have engines from a family that is known to really heat up the oil, it's not going to make much difference. Yes, Las Vegas is hot, but people are far more sensitive to these minor fluctuations in temperatures than are engines.

If there were an oil on the market that I was worried about in the heat, it certainly would not be Amsoil SS of any viscosity. If the engine is up to the task and is appropriately speced for a twenty grade, then the Amsoil is going to do just fine. If someone is foolish enough to run Amsoil 0w-20 in a Cummins or something like that in a Vegas summer, well, it's not Amsoil that's being foolish.

And with respect to Pablo's M1 reference about 15,000 mile OCIs in their taxi test, anything less than 15,000 miles in such an application using synthetic would be pointless.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
You beat me to it! Whether its QS testing in NYC, or anyone else in LV, they all choose fleets that run (near) 24/7/356. No thermal cycling, no cold starts, very little fuel dilution.

Absolutely. My taxi fleet got QS conventional 10w-30 for 6,000 mile OCIs in the late 1970s to early 1990s. No fuel dilution, no cold starts, and oil always at temperature makes for an easy ride.

Of course, I wouldn't have wanted to take the QS out to the intervals that these guys tried. Nonetheless, taxis aren't the severe service people think they are. They're a great testing resource, though, considering the number of vehicles available and the mileage they rack up and the semi-consistent conditions.

There are variations in how different cabbies treat (and mistreat) their vehicles. But, it's not as diverse as comparing a cabbie to the old lady who drives a half mile to church once a week, and nothing more.


Great point. A soccer mom can beat a taxi driver to the light EVERY TIME!

Re: oils, it is my personal belief most folks change their oil way too early so that almost any synthetic is lots better than they need. Once all the mfgrs get the OLM thing sorted out we may then be able to learn how oils behave at the edges of their performance envelope...

 

[Garak]

Absolutely, Steve. I should talk to some of the guys in the industry and see what they're doing these days with respect to the OLMs on the various cars. It might be interesting now, since it isn't only Town Cars/Crown Vics or the old style Caprices any longer. There's much more variety. Then again, like anything else, the hands on portion of the industry isn't what it used to be. There aren't all that many owners changing their own oil, much less doing brake jobs or shocks or mounting their own tires.

We were never terribly interested in greatly extending OCIs in the cabs, at least to the point where synthetics would have paid off. Downtime in a taxi oil change service is negligible, unlike in the long haul industry. I could get the oil change and a quick inspection done before the car was vacuumed and the windows cleaned. And that's what we didn't want to miss - at least a cursory undercarriage inspection. A 15,000 mile OCI is great, provided you don't miss the sway bar hanging by a thread or totally bizarre tire wear in the interim.

 

[Pablo]

How do you guys know idling is so easy for a known sludge engine?

I agree that because humans perceive 105°F to be hot, and engine doesn't. I told this to Amsoil and the sales guys said it's harder than 68°F, and did say cold starts cause more wear.

 

[Artem]

But didn't M1 do ACTUAL 15,000 mile OCIs during their test (regardless of the hours) while Amsoil tried to sneak their way in with the whole "900 hours = roughly 15,000 miles" baloney?

According to this, seems like Mobil 1 was used for a lot more then 900 hours in order to realistically rack up 15,000 miles in stop n go traffic.

Am I reading this correct?

 

[ADFD1]

Just a way to sell oil.

AD

 

[Rolla07]

How about a side by side comparison using the same test using m1 and a dino oil??
And than do a teardown of those to show how amsoil is superior. Or even a comparison with a car that wasnt using amsoil.

 

[buster]

Mobil 1 was used in for 15,000 miles in the Las Vegas study.

They also ran 25,000 mile testing in two Camaros.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Mobil_1_Sludge_Protection.aspx

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
How do you guys know idling is so easy for a known sludge engine?

We don't.

That's why I'm curious about how things are going in the industry right now with all the different vehicles. Back when I was in the business, if you popped the hood of a taxi, you found a 305, a 350, a 302, or a 351, and that was pretty much it. Also, I can't gloss over the fact that taxis were using LPG at the time. Zero fuel dilution, regardless of driving patterns, is a rather nice thing.

As for M1 choosing mileage only for their test and Amsoil correcting for idling, I don't mind. They both went with something reasonable to them, and consistent within their tests. It's a reasonable assumption that most taxis in one market idle for similar amounts of time, so mileage is still a good marker. However, if one can tailor a good OCI that factors in the idling in the first place, then a better mileage target can be established for a maintenance plan.

If XOM or Amsoil decided to grab only CNG or LPG vehicles with old style V8s for a taxi test, I bet they could really push things out.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I've owned a couple of LPG vans back in the 70's, they kept the oil amazingly clean in all inner city driving. But we did not use the van engine as a stationary power plant back then.

IME there is virtually no issue with idling as long as the thermostat can keep the engine HOT. Engine life goes up with high heat if well maintained. Seems like a good oil doesn't mind heat and it can drive moisture and contaminants out of the oil.

I also firmly believe the water, trans fluid, and engine oil all flowing through the radiator helps to stabilize temps yet hold them higher than they would be without it. While this can affect certain areas of performance it seems better for longevity.