Amsoil expensive-Wow!

[Bryanccfshr]

Same reason as my mitsubishi is OK with 15k mile filter changes.
The Regular cheap filters such as PP and supertech are in the same position as the conventional oils. We say they can go further but not many(of the OCD fanatics here) are willing to try it(some housewife in the midwest probably puts our expectations to shame without even knowing it).

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I've yet to find them anywhere I shop for oils north of Detroit..

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Why is it that Honda now recommends 10K OCI and filter changes every 20K miles for normal driving conditions ??

---

Because that's the level of maintenance that is required to give their vehicles a reasonable life cycle. They may just be a little ahead of their time in this regard.

You would say the same thing for 6m/7500 10-15 years ago ..in fact, there are still people on this very board that wouldn't touch 7500 miles on an OCI with a 10ft pole without fancy synthetics and fancy filters. For all we know the oil and filter in a Honda degrades just like it does in any other car ..but it won't stop either from giving 150-200k of reasonable service without added costs.

What you don't know is the condition of the given vehicle when it gets retired. Some will be clean as a whistle ..others will not.

 

[earthworm]

Why is it that Honda now recommends 10K OCI and filter changes every 20K miles for normal driving conditions ??
.................. the above copied.............

The car companies will do anything to make their product look better than the competition...

Is Honda any different than GM or Ford ???

The prime factor is ,as always, the service life of the oil and filter..
The drivers of the big rigs know this down to an exact science.. Some of us do, via experience and the oil analysis..
I, of course, try and be safe and change the oil every 3 to 4 months(regardless of mileage)..
There may well be waste; but then I have never had any problems either.
I try not to play Russian roulette with my engine - which must last "forever"...

IMO, it is false economy NOT to change the filter every 3 to 4 months - they are not costly..
IMO, another false economy is the Amsoil filter at $15.
Yes they are good and efficient; but the filter medium can hold just so much sludge, beyond that point, one has NO FILTER...
So why not use a less expensive one and change it more often - resulting in more continuous protection..
Now, if there were a way to determine when the filter goes into the by-pass stage, then a man could have the best of two worlds (economy and effectiveness)..

 

[earthworm]

Oh.........Joe Dually, I'll beat the rest to this one. Purolators, Wix, and others will run around 5 bucks and go about 5,000miles. Amsoil EA filters will go 25,000 miles. 5X5=$25.00 Oh well I guess the 15 dollar Amsoil filter won..

How did I do Pablo?

Is the Amsoil filter 4 times larger than its competition that it can be effective for so many miles ??

I think not...so what kind of protection does it provide when say at 8,000 miles it is clogged and yields no oil filtration for the next 17,000 miles ???

Maybe the Amsoil "wins", but the engine loses..

 

[Gary Mintz]

earthworm

quote:

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I think not...so what kind of protection does it provide when say at 8,000 miles it is clogged and yields no oil filtration for the next 17,000 miles ??? Maybe the Amsoil "wins", but the engine loses..

---

If I'm running Amsoils ASL 5W-30 25,000 mile oil or even TSO 0W-30 35,000 mile oil and EaO Filters that are Guaranteed for 25,000 miles or one year.

What would clog the filter? Could it be my oil

I think not

 

[vad]

The thing is that the reasonably maintained modern engines don't produce enough of stuff to clog up a filter. Not even in 20K miles.
Any properly design filter will work just fine.
Unless of course if you've got a sludge monster.

 

[LargeCarMan]

Earthworm, I believe the major manufactures of long use oil filters have done there homework. Meaning they have used "real world testing" and oil analysis with a particle count to determine if the filter is still filtering. Fleece filters, Filters like the Donaldson and Amsoil have long term capability to continue to filter oil into the 25,000 mile range. Do you think they would offer a filter that gives up the ghost at 8,000 miles? This is why they use different medias and depths of media to accomplish this. Another way to guarantee the oil is filtered is to add a bypass filter and the added filter really extends the fullflow life.

 

[vad]

Where is any evidence that a $5 filter won't last into the 25,000 mile range?

 

[wavinwayne]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but it reminded me of an automotive sin that I committed in my youth......I wish I could have seen the insides of the oil filter on my first car. It was an '83 Monte Carlo with a 3.8L V6 that was a severe oil burner/leaker. I bought the Monte with 100k miles on it in 1989 & ran the same oil filter for over 4 years (80k miles) & never changed the oil, just topped up when it got low.

I'm still repenting for my sin.

 

[vad]

80K on the same filter???

What happened afterwards?

 

[wavinwayne]

Afterwards(in 1993), I traded in the car & bought a used '90 Mazda MX-6. At least I had the oil & filter changed every 3-5k miles in the Mazda. Sold the Mazda with 150k miles on it in 1999 to my sister, who promptly let it run out of oil & killed it.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

.

 

[turbochem]

quote:

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Where is any evidence that a $5 filter won't last into the 25,000 mile range?

---

Where is the data that shows that they will last that long?

In the absence of data from either side, I like to play it safe.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Bob had some interestingt comments on the subject.

On extended drain filters

& Bobs no filter tests thread.

 

[vad]

I don't wanna sound like a broken record but the european car manufacturers like VW specify the 20K oil filter intervals.
How come they won't play it safe considering how much there is at stake?

I practice 10-12K oil/filter change intervals with a $4 dollar MC filters. I used to cut them open immediately after the change. They looked fairly new.
No sludge or debris. Very few visible particles.
In other words the filters looked very clean.
I wouldn't hesitate to run them for another 10K miles but prefer to get as much of dirty oil out as possible during the change.

 

[vad]

Bob's experiment is very interesting indeed.
Still

quote:

---

Bob's filter test was very informative, but it had some inherant flaws in it due to limited facilities/resources.
You had to take the data FWIW.
The fluid was high visc at room temp when compared to operating temps. The oil pump wasn't proven to be run at the same speed in each application. Electric motor load was used as an indicator of sorts. The test was done on a line pressure spec of 40 psi to the engine and the resultant upstream pressure was noted. I think the data would have been much different if something like 10w hydraulic oil were used and the oil pump was assured to be running at a fixed rpm to assure the exact same flow.

---

 

[bmwtechguy]

Is it possible that the Amsoil EaO oil filters would do a better job at keeping more wear particles out of the oil at all times for a full year or 20k miles than a decent Wix or Motorcraft that is changed every 5k miles "just to be safe"? In other words, less engine wear over the year's time? If this is true, it seems the EaO would be a good value for some people.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

It is easy for us to come up with better testing particulars in hindsight. The initiative has started many garage lab and testing facilities though.
His conclusions need consideration despite errors in testing.

The fact is there is not a standardized test sequence for us to evaluate oil filter performance on.
That means we are all guessing are taking our empirical results and forming conclusions that way.

 

[vad]

quote:

---

Is it possible that the Amsoil EaO oil filters would do a better job at keeping more wear particles out of the oil at all times for a full year or 20k miles than a decent Wix or Motorcraft that is changed every 5k miles "just to be safe"? In other words, less engine wear over the year's time? If this is true, it seems the EaO would be a good value for some people.

---

I would like to see if Amsoil would remove more particles than Motorcraft during the same 10K interval.
But the deference would be very small if any since Motorcraft already does a very good job keeping insolubles at very low 0.3%