Amsoil base stocks not what they used to be?

J

jetmech1

Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
184
Location
SW Missouri
Hi All, I did a search on this till I was cross-eyed and still didn't find the answer. I am considering switching to Amsoil. I know their Signature Series has a superior ad pack. When I was searching their website and their "faqs" section, This question was asked: What kind of base stocks does Amsoil use? Are Amsoil synthetic lubricants PAO based? Here is their answer that I copied and pasted here:
Quote:
Answer: AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants. AMSOIL developed the world’s first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972 and has remained the leader in the synthetic lubricant industry by continually researching new technologies and demanding only the highest-quality raw materials. As the company moves forward with new technologies it is increasingly more important that this information remains proprietary. AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives, with each having its own set of unique properties. AMSOIL does not insist on a particular type of base stock, but insists on particular performance parameters. AMSOIL chooses whichever synthetic base stock or combination of base stocks delivers the desired result and tailors its lubricants to be application-specific (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperatures, etc.). At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters.
It would seem to me that they are not strictly using Group 4 PAO base stocks. To me, their answer looked elusive. At the risk of igniting a "firestorm", shouldn't something this expensive be group 4 PAO based? Has dino base stock refining gotten so good that it doesn't matter anymore? The reason I'm wanting to know is because it's not too easy to do my own OCI's like I used to and am looking to extend them. (I've started using oil analysis too). Thanks.......
 
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<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Liars</span> Lawyers love using superfluous words to obfuscate any issue...e.g qualified versus certified.
 
Waiting for Pablo* In the meantime, I understood that the signature series or 25k oil was PAO. Any less was group III such as the XL, and I'm unfamiliar with "OE." I've used signature and XL. I don't believe you have to have a solid group IV to achieve ultimate performance, though. It will be interesting to see this thread develop.
 
I am an amsoil preferred customer. I will use their signature series oil as it's a group 4 PAO. However I find the XL and OE series a step in the wrong direction, as it it is a group 3 (they comfirmed this in their newsletter). I can see amsoil's position to capture more of the market share. But I don't agree with it. I don't believe in lowering their standards to meet a price point. Amsoil had an excellent reputation in the past (Still good today) ,and all of their other products are excellent.I hope they don't become the new CASTROL or XOM.I can see little benefit in using XL or OE VS store bought oils. MY .02
 
Originally Posted By: INTJ
It will be interesting to see this thread develop.
More like interesting to see how long this lasts before it is locked... But I am curious to see what Pablo has to say.
 
Quote:
More like interesting to see how long this lasts before it is locked...
It's not my intention for this to develop into a 'scorched earth" topic. Hopefully civil discourse will prevail. I'm just new to this forum. Have been a lifelong mechanic (commercial aviation) and thought I was pretty well versed in lubricants, until I came here. Compared to you guys, I feel like a Noob.
 
I have to agree that this forum has unbelievable knowledge and is completely priceless. I see nothing wrong with their choice to make the OE line. I use it as the lowest grade synthetic in my Amsoil stash. I personally don't like / see a point of the XL line because it seems to offer such a small performance boost compared to OE and is not worth it to me. OE can do 10k mile intervals. Price wise, I think if might be Amsoils best bang for the buck, from the UOAs I've seen and personally done. (Will post one of OE tomorrow if it comes in)
 
This is an interesting thread to me, as I am a new member and started reading this board specifically for consideration of a switch from store shelf brands to AMSoil.
 
If an oil COULD be certified it would be. This garbage about saving the consumer money is trash. Other certified oils are competively priced. Save your vehicles warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveP
This is an interesting thread to me, as I am a new member and started reading this board specifically for consideration of a switch from store shelf brands to AMSoil.
Amsoil in the beginning was an Ester based group oil. Over the years, they have found out that PAO base oil gives a longer oil change interval. Redline, Neo, and others still use strickly an Ester base stock. Amsoil seems to have the market on long oil drain changes and is one of the best top tier oils. If you stick with short oil change miles, just stay with what you have or switch to Amsoil group III OE oils.
 
Quote:
Answer: AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants
Amsoil may or may not be PAO i have no idea but if it was i have to wonder why they just don't come right out and say it instead of all this dancing around the question.
 
This is what Amsoil has been saying for about the last 5 years, so it's not like this is new or anything. So other than the formulations listed below there is no new shift in philisophy. And it's what the wisest people on this site say. "At the end of the day, the type of base stock used to formulate the oil is inconsequential; the product’s performance is what matters." Amsoil has three PCMO's: OE series, XL Series and Sig Series. OE is Group III based with a standard, but good additive package. This oil is in line with the typical Group III based OTC oil like PP, PU, Castrol synthetic, etc XL is the same Group III base as OE, but with a much stouter additive package. Sig Series is Group IV&V based extended OCI and robust additive package. No Mysteries there. Also there are the HDEO's (one is a blend), Race and vintage vehicle oils, the power sports oils, etc which are Group IV, V. Lastly, Redline is NOT 100% ester. It's ester and PAO.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Thanks for the info Pablo. To bad Amsoil just cant say it that simply. Honestly their answer sucks! IMHO
Why would AMSoil want to divulge their secrets? Not many other oil companies do. Their answer is the typical CYA response and in todays age, who blames them for doing that.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Answer: AMSOIL maintains formulation details as proprietary and does not divulge specifics regarding the type of synthetic base stocks used in its synthetic lubricants
Amsoil may or may not be PAO i have no idea but if it was i have to wonder why they just don't come right out and say it instead of all this dancing around the question.
Good point Trav. They've taken the same roads as everyone else. IMO if you're the very best there's no reason for using words like proprietary is there? They don't have to divulge exact formulations, they don't have to skate around things either, that takes away from the image of quality IMO.
 
Thanks Pablo. Sure wish they would just explain it like you did. Sounds like they pulled a Mobil 1 explanation.
 
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