Civic FN2 oil choice

[Mugen_fn2]

Hello everyone! I've been reading this forum for some time, but never posted.

I would like to hear your thoughts, as I haven't seen as many petrolheads in one place as here.
I have 2010 Type R(Civic SI in US, as you may know) with K20Z4 engine and 64k miles on it. At the moment I'm using Millers 5w-40 and Shell Ultra 5w-40, but this year I won't be taking my car to the track, as I always do, and would like some lower viscosity oil, but with good protection qualities that K20 high revving engines needs.
I'm stuck between Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 and Amsoil SS 5w-30. Mobil looks better because of it's HTHS rating, A3/B4 spec and probably better quality polymers - I have seen the test where it topped Shell and Amsoil in shear stability test. Amsoil on the other hand has a bit better base oils (PAO+VHVI+Esters), but not sure if it's in the same league in protection compared to Mobil. Ilsac oils are more focused on fuel saving than protection for performance cars (hot hatch in my case).
In UK we don't have much oil choice, imo, compared to other parts of the world and Amsoil being import will cost more than Mobil, but it's not deciding factor if it will be better suited. Opieoils is the place to go for me if you need some reference.

I have included some oil analysis I did in the past and pictures of the the engine internals, when I was doing some parts swap from JDM FD2 - maybe it will help.

All opinions welcome and thank you!

 

[Mugen_fn2]

Any advice possibly?

 

[buster]

Any advice possibly?

If it's between the M1 0w40 and Amsoil SS 5w30, I'd lean towards the Mobil 1 in your situation due to availability and price. In terms of viscosity for non-track use though, the Amsoil would be a great choice. Both oils are very good. Can't go wrong with either choice.

 

[Revving2Redline]

I cannot provide a unbiased suggestion. As a Honda officionado and loyal to certain aftermarket Boutique lubrication companies who do a whole lot of sponsoring of various Honda and Acura teams I would suggest Redline oil it's what I use all the time in my transmission and the majority of the time what I try to use in my engine. Unfortunately, the cost is probably in the same ballpark as Amsoil but I do believe they have a good track record as far as a product. The suggestion of using the mobil one for me would only be because of price point and availability.

 

[Kalle.J]

What about Castrol 0W30 A3/B4

Castrol EDGE A3/B4 0W-30 Engine Oil

The UK's largest independent supplier of automotive oils, fluid and parts. We've products to suit any vehicle, from full blown Race / Track weapons, to Daily Drivers looking to save money. Plus FREE expert advice & recommendations - OPIE KNOW OILS

www.opieoils.co.uk

Not in stock atm.
30 and 40 weight A3/B4 are really close anyway I would stay on xW40

Amsoil had over 1000 boron?

 

[Oliveoil2]

What does the Honda UK manual recommend for viscosity and do you go by the Oil Life Monitor/Maintenance Minder?

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Hello everyone! I've been reading this forum for some time, but never posted.

I would like to hear your thoughts, as I haven't seen as many petrolheads in one place as here.
I have 2010 Type R(Civic SI in US, as you may know) with K20Z4 engine and 64k miles on it. At the moment I'm using Millers 5w-40 and Shell Ultra 5w-40, but this year I won't be taking my car to the track, as I always do, and would like some lower viscosity oil, but with good protection qualities that K20 high revving engines needs.
I'm stuck between Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 and Amsoil SS 5w-30. Mobil looks better because of it's HTHS rating, A3/B4 spec and probably better quality polymers - I have seen the test where it topped Shell and Amsoil in shear stability test. Amsoil on the other hand has a bit better base oils (PAO+VHVI+Esters), but not sure if it's in the same league in protection compared to Mobil. Ilsac oils are more focused on fuel saving than protection for performance cars (hot hatch in my case).
In UK we don't have much oil choice, imo, compared to other parts of the world and Amsoil being import will cost more than Mobil, but it's not deciding factor if it will be better suited. Opieoils is the place to go for me if you need some reference.

I have included some oil analysis I did in the past and pictures of the the engine internals, when I was doing some parts swap from JDM FD2 - maybe it will help.

All opinions welcome and thank you!

View attachment 212479

View attachment 212480

View attachment 212481

View attachment 212482

View attachment 212483

View attachment 212484

Can’t harm using any of the big name brand wearing 5w30 euro labels.

 

[Kalle.J]

We don't have Euro labels

Honda Ireland's chart:
Anything above 3.5HTHS should be fine for road use.
I would ask hondaperformanceclub

https://weudealerimagesprd.blob.core.windows.net/ie33/siteassets/HGO Oil Application 02 - 20 YM.pdf
https://www.honda.ie/page/210/honda-genuine-oil-application-guide

 

[Mugen_fn2]

I cannot provide a unbiased suggestion. As a Honda officionado and loyal to certain aftermarket Boutique lubrication companies who do a whole lot of sponsoring of various Honda and Acura teams I would suggest Redline oil it's what I use all the time in my transmission and the majority of the time what I try to use in my engine. Unfortunately, the cost is probably in the same ballpark as Amsoil but I do believe they have a good track record as far as a product. The suggestion of using the mobil one for me would only be because of price point and availability.

Redline is even more expensive than Amsoil, but it has (maybe) unmatched package of additives and oil base. I'm using RL in my gearbox.

What does the Honda UK manual recommend for viscosity and do you go by the Oil Life Monitor/Maintenance Minder?

This is what my manual says.

We don't have Euro labels

Honda Ireland's chart:
Anything above 3.5HTHS should be fine for road use.
I would ask hondaperformanceclub

I found on group from Grece on FB bby this name. Do you have a link by any chance?

If it's between the M1 0w40 and Amsoil SS 5w30, I'd lean towards the Mobil 1 in your situation due to availability and price. In terms of viscosity for non-track use though, the Amsoil would be a great choice. Both oils are very good. Can't go wrong with either choice.

I'm leaning toward Mobil 1 too.

 

[Revving2Redline]

What about Castrol 0W30 A3/B4

Castrol EDGE A3/B4 0W-30 Engine Oil

The UK's largest independent supplier of automotive oils, fluid and parts. We've products to suit any vehicle, from full blown Race / Track weapons, to Daily Drivers looking to save money. Plus FREE expert advice & recommendations - OPIE KNOW OILS

www.opieoils.co.uk

Not in stock atm.
30 and 40 weight A3/B4 are really close anyway I would stay on xW40

Amsoil had over 1000 boron?

Castrol isn't even in the same ballpark let alone parking lot as Amsoil. If they put 1000 Boron in there that's awesome .

 

[twX]

Honda seems to be okay with an oil with an HTHS of either 2.9+ or 3.5+, and recommends high-SAPS in euro markets, and low-SAPS in non-Euro markets.

For non-track use in a mild climate like yours, I wouldn't worry too much about HTHS or shear-thinning. The Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 will be plenty thick enough. For track use, I'd favour a 5W-30 or 5W-40 with better shear stability and higher HTHS.

For your short OCI's, I wouldn't worry much about using a lower-SAPS oil either. The mid-SAPS MB 229.52 standard is more stringent than MB 229.5 in terms of oxidation and piston deposits, which might be relevant in hard driving. You might consider Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

Any idea why aluminum is consistently high on your UOAs?

 

[Mugen_fn2]

Any idea why aluminum is consistently high on your UOAs?

Have no clue personally. Seen opinions online that the lab test equipment could show higher AL because of high content of Molybdenum(Millers cfs nt+), but I cannot think of any other reason. I prefer oem air/oil filters and magnetic drain plug is always clean. I will change the oil for something with normal additives package and send it for a test, just to see the difference.

 

[Kalle.J]

Castrol isn't even in the same ballpark let alone parking lot as Amsoil. If they put 1000 Boron in there that's awesome .

You got _anything_ to back up that opinion?

 

[Kalle.J]

Redline is even more expensive than Amsoil, but it has (maybe) unmatched package of additives and oil base. I'm using RL in my gearbox.


This is what my manual says.

View attachment 213033



I found on group from Grece on FB bby this name. Do you have a link by any chance?



I'm leaning toward Mobil 1 too.

Hondaperformaneclub.com Swedish site but you probably got another Honda forum in UK.

So sad we don't have Mobile 1 5W-40 "euro" in EU-market. And we definitely don't have any Walmart prices

 

[Mugen_fn2]

Hondaperformaneclub.com Swedish site but you probably got another Honda forum in UK.

So sad we don't have Walmart/Amazon price on Mobile 1 5W-40 "euro" in EU-market.

Problem with UK forums that there are very few people prepared to split hairs regarding engine oils. Unfortunately. The ones who really knowledgeable just don’t post online.

Im also thinking of using shell helix ultra 5w-40. It’s cheaper, I can change it even every 3k, and mixed closer to 5w-30 than any other 5w-40 I know.

 

[Kalle.J]

Problem with UK forums that there are very few people prepared to split hairs regarding engine oils. Unfortunately. The ones who really knowledgeable just don’t post online.

Im also thinking of using shell helix ultra 5w-40. It’s cheaper, I can change it even every 3k, and mixed closer to 5w-30 than any other 5w-40 I know.

Why do you even want x-30? What do you think you will gain from that?
Any A3/B4 will be above 3.5HTHS anyway.

If you really want fuel economy try A5/B5. Just expect oil consumption to go up if you have any.

Shell helix ultra 5w40 is hard to beat for the price. Have run it many times.

(https://hondaklubben.com/forum/)

 

[Mugen_fn2]

What I did - ordered SHU 5w-40 and M1 FS0w-40. Shell will fill now and run until September/October(planned euro trip to Spain this summer) and M1 will use during colder month. Will get UOA on both with similar mileage and see how it looks.
This is the plan at least.

 

[twX]

Have no clue personally. Seen opinions online that the lab test equipment could show higher AL because of high content of Molybdenum(Millers cfs nt+)

HPL posted a VOA of one of their oils showing that it contained 10 ppm Al, and they explained that it was from the 625 ppm of moly additive, so the oil with 1000 ppm moly could have ~15 ppm aluminum from moly if it uses similar stuff. The UOA of the lower-moly oil you used had ~15 ppm less aluminum, so I'd say that's almost certainly where it's coming from.

 

[930.engineering]

For track use, I'd favour a 5W-30 or 5W-40 with better shear stability and higher HTHS.
For your short OCI's, I wouldn't worry much about using a lower-SAPS oil either. The mid-SAPS MB 229.52 standard is more stringent than MB 229.5 in terms of oxidation and piston deposits, which might be relevant in hard driving. You might consider Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

Agree. M1 ESP 5W-30 (BMW, VW, MB) or M1 ESP X3 0W-40 (VW 511 00, Porsche C40).

Any idea why aluminum is consistently high on your UOAs?

Not 'consistently' but with Millers CFS oils. Fe and Cu numbers are fine, however IMHO Al is actually a reason for some concern.

Have no clue personally. Seen opinions online that the lab test equipment could show higher AL because of high content of Molybdenum(Millers cfs nt+), but I cannot think of any other reason. I prefer oem air/oil filters and magnetic drain plug is always clean.

Apparently your K20Z4 loves Boron (1004 ppm?). Just 13 ppm Al instead of ~30 ppm. Which oil with this?

 

[Mugen_fn2]

Agree. M1 ESP 5W-30 (BMW, VW, MB) or M1 ESP X3 0W-40 (VW 511 00, Porsche C40).




Not 'consistently' but with Millers CFS oils. Fe and Cu numbers are fine, however IMHO Al is actually a reason for some concern.



Apparently your K20Z4 loves Boron (1004 ppm?). Just 13 ppm Al instead of ~30 ppm. Which oil with this?

It was millers 5w-40

https://www.millersoils-shop.co.uk/motorsport-cfs-5w40-nt-plus-engine-oil

I have filled SHU 5W-40 last week which will be changed in September approximately and bought M1 FS 0W-40 for colder months and again I will try to do analysis next year March maybe.

Apparently for the mods it made good power 205whp/238flyhp and tuner said it's strong engine. Stock exhaust (it's the most restrictive part on FN2). I will see soon.

Also, I will probably send oil test to Millers laboratory again for more consistency - not sure FA-ST filtration's test is valid. Or maybe Millers is wrong...who knows?

In UK there's not many popular places to claim either. People don't bother.