American-brand cars prove poipular with millennial

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Considering tons of regular people buy a honda and then continue to buy more hondas in the future tells me customer satisfaction is substantially higher. There is a loyalty there.
They flat out most of the time build better cars as well as Toyota and the proof is in the pudding.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: genynnc
Originally Posted By: bigt61
The quality gap the Japanese once had has disappeared. GM, Ford and Chrysler have all raised their games - and are making products people want to buy. Compared to a new Cruze, Focus or Dart, a Corolla looks and feels dated and cheap. Maybe the Corolla will last 200,000 miles, but pity the poor soul who has to drive it that long.



You keep telling yourself that...lol.

Let me break it down straight to the point.

Two vehicles I maintain- '03 Corolla & '03 Dodge Ram 1500

Mileage- '03 Corolla 275K '03 Dodge Ram 75K

Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Corolla- 5 sets of plugs, 3 ATF pan drops and re-fills w/ new filters, 4 sets of tires, 1 PCV valve, numerous oil & filter changes, 02 sensors replaced, air filters, 1 set of brake pads, 1 set of rotors, 1 brake fluid flush, 1 cooling system flush.

EDIT: struts on all four corners replaced

I am amazed the stock tranny is still going strong.

Repairs/ Maintenance: '03 Dodge Ram- 02s replaced, catalytic converter replaced, complete front brake system replaced (rotors, pads, calipers- covered under factory warranty @ 11K) replaced alternator, replaced sliding rear window (inside latch broke... whole sliding glass had to be replaced!) 2 sets of plugs, plug wires replaced, gas cap replaced, NVLR pump hose replaced (evaporative system), power steering pump hose (one of them) replaced, 2 ATF pan drops w/ filters, numerous oil and filters, air filters, 1 differential fluid change.

I'm lucky, I did all the repairs except for the cat replacement and the front brakes under warranty. If I was paying someone to do the work... the Dodge would be GONE. I am amazed by one thing in the Dodge... it's still on the factory battery!




I'm not convinced that domestic 'quality' has kept pace with their design teams. The newer cars look 'better' but looking good and running good are two different things.


On the original topic, I'm glad Detroit is getting some of the young crowds attention. They need it.






You're comparing Chrysler - BY FAR the worst quality of the domestic brands to Toyota. That's not really a fair comparison. Compare Ford or GM.


On top of that, it's only two examples. You can find '03 Corollas with around 75k miles that had caliper(s) replaced, EVAP repairs, and various other repairs and maintenance that would rival or exceed the Ram's repairs. Besides which, good reliability is nice but it's not the only factor and the end all be all.
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Considering tons of regular people buy a honda and then continue to buy more hondas in the future tells me customer satisfaction is substantially higher. There is a loyalty there.
They flat out most of the time build better cars as well as Toyota and the proof is in the pudding.


That proves very little to nothing. The case could be you continue to buy something based on faulty perception or information and ignorance of other options. That's what this story is all about, younger buyers have less preconceived notions and exploring their options.
 
Its a change in demographics that happens with every generation. A few things are at work here:

1. Kids don't like to drive what their parents drove.
2. Fuel is expensive and younger people are more socially conscious, so small cars are not only cool, they are easy on the fuel budget.
3. American companies are finally making some really good small cars, while the Japanese are resting on their laurels.
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Considering tons of regular people buy a honda and then continue to buy more hondas in the future tells me customer satisfaction is substantially higher. There is a loyalty there.
They flat out most of the time build better cars as well as Toyota and the proof is in the pudding.


Tons of regular people buy all kinds of vehicles repeatedly. My family has been buying Ford cars since the Model A. One guy I work with has had like 6 BMW's. A client of mine has had at least 5 BMW's. Another client has a veritable VW emporium with a few micro busses and the like. His wife, his kids...etc, they ALL drive VW's because that's what their dad is a fan of and what they grew up around. Given VW's reliability history, do you think this is because "they flat-out most of the time built better cars"?

Buying criteria isn't always all about what is the most reliable. I'm the first to admit that in many cases, that has not been BMW's strong suite. If you want a car that's never going to need much in the way of maintenance and repairs, don't look here. But if you want a car that's put together incredibly well with beautiful fit and finish, handles wonderfully and is designed around the driver, IMHO, you can't beat them. The driving experience sells the German cars for the most part. The appliance experience is what sells a Toyota. Honda is a bit of a mix of both. But "Civic Nation" certainly wasn't founded on bullet-proof reliability, it is enthusiast oriented where guys are sprinkling their blocks all over the drag strip pushing boost through them. The "Fast and the Furious" crowd. Honda strikes me as the brand for people who want a Japanese car that is generally reliable, but more fun to drive than a Toyota. Same seems to go for Nissan.

"Japanese Reliability" has become an buzz-phrase in North America. "Japanese" and "Reliable" became synonyms. It is now an expected trait, because it has been so heavily ingrained in society with respect to the media and the reputation of these brands during the 80's and 90's where they built basic cars that were pretty bloody reliable and dominated the compact segment when Ford was building the Escort, GM was building the J-body and Dodge was building the Omni.

My sister's husband was hard-core into the "Toyota thing". My one sister (who has a Jetta) will never buy anything that isn't German. These people can't make cases as to WHY they think these particular brands are better than another. My sister with the Jetta scoffs at my parents still driving an old Ford (2000 Expedition) but that truck has racked up more miles than all the vehicles she's owned combined and needed very little in the way of repairs and maintenance in comparison.

Perception is a key player here. Usually it isn't as simple as we try to make it out to be.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Considering tons of regular people buy a honda and then continue to buy more hondas in the future tells me customer satisfaction is substantially higher. There is a loyalty there.
They flat out most of the time build better cars as well as Toyota and the proof is in the pudding.


That proves very little to nothing. The case could be you continue to buy something based on faulty perception or information and ignorance of other options. That's what this story is all about, younger buyers have less preconceived notions and exploring their options.


Younger buyers are generally less knowledgeable as well.
Also the japanese cars are still great but america has finally started playing on the same field. Japanese manufacturers have hit a point where theyre in a plateau. Give it a few years and the tide will turn again. Korean cars are now very popular and advanced but eventually hyundais growth will stabilize as well.
Lets be realistic by all practical fair standards then big 3 should have fallen years ago. The junk they built from the 70s to the 90s should have killed them and had the market been a true and fair free market it probably would have. Now I'm glad they didn't sort of. Though seeing new car companies take their place could have been very interesting.

The Japanese have just hit a flat point all companies do, we all know Honda and Toyota are capable of building great cars, lets not count them out just yet. Keep in mind though American cars are better they're also hyped up because holy cow gm is actually producing a car with seats that don't feel like milk crates. The expectations were low so any improvement is a surprise.

Also the dart isn't American designed , heck in order to do heater core the whole interior except the back seat has to come out including the doors.
The chevy products all have Korean roots......so how much better are American cars really doing?? Seems like in order to compete they went over seas used there foreign manufacturers vehicle and stuck an american emblem on them.......hmmm is that american?? In my book no.
 
A lot of incorrect statements in there. One of the biggest that American auotmakers were producing junk in the 80's and 90's and would've failed on a level playing field. Absolutely not and if the Big 3 were playing on a level field with Japanese makers, none of the Big 3 would even been in finacial difficulty at any level.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Makes sense. The Japaneese cars are bland and boring. The reliability is not the God-like thing it's supposed to be. And then there's this big reason: you don't want to drive the same car your parents drove.

Still don't know why you would buy the awful Corolla and Civic when there are much better choices around there. Mazda 3, Focus, Fiesta, Spark, Sonic, Veloster to name a few.


Maybe because they aren't necessarily better choices. The Veloster, gutless is not even the word, incredibly subjective looks as well. (I dont love it)
Mazda 3 should not be an option for anyone in Canada or Northern US who values longevity, Spark is blah and Sonic still looks like an Aveo (which is not a good thing) leaving the Fiesta and the Focus to me as the only half decent cars on your list. The new Civic is great if you want a good A to B car, as is the Corolla but its dreadful in every way except reliability.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Considering tons of regular people buy a honda and then continue to buy more hondas in the future tells me customer satisfaction is substantially higher. There is a loyalty there.
They flat out most of the time build better cars as well as Toyota and the proof is in the pudding.


Tons of regular people buy all kinds of vehicles repeatedly. My family has been buying Ford cars since the Model A. One guy I work with has had like 6 BMW's. A client of mine has had at least 5 BMW's. Another client has a veritable VW emporium with a few micro busses and the like. His wife, his kids...etc, they ALL drive VW's because that's what their dad is a fan of and what they grew up around. Given VW's reliability history, do you think this is because "they flat-out most of the time built better cars"?

Buying criteria isn't always all about what is the most reliable. I'm the first to admit that in many cases, that has not been BMW's strong suite. If you want a car that's never going to need much in the way of maintenance and repairs, don't look here. But if you want a car that's put together incredibly well with beautiful fit and finish, handles wonderfully and is designed around the driver, IMHO, you can't beat them. The driving experience sells the German cars for the most part. The appliance experience is what sells a Toyota. Honda is a bit of a mix of both. But "Civic Nation" certainly wasn't founded on bullet-proof reliability, it is enthusiast oriented where guys are sprinkling their blocks all over the drag strip pushing boost through them. The "Fast and the Furious" crowd. Honda strikes me as the brand for people who want a Japanese car that is generally reliable, but more fun to drive than a Toyota. Same seems to go for Nissan.

"Japanese Reliability" has become an buzz-phrase in North America. "Japanese" and "Reliable" became synonyms. It is now an expected trait, because it has been so heavily ingrained in society with respect to the media and the reputation of these brands during the 80's and 90's where they built basic cars that were pretty bloody reliable and dominated the compact segment when Ford was building the Escort, GM was building the J-body and Dodge was building the Omni.

My sister's husband was hard-core into the "Toyota thing". My one sister (who has a Jetta) will never buy anything that isn't German. These people can't make cases as to WHY they think these particular brands are better than another. My sister with the Jetta scoffs at my parents still driving an old Ford (2000 Expedition) but that truck has racked up more miles than all the vehicles she's owned combined and needed very little in the way of repairs and maintenance in comparison.

Perception is a key player here. Usually it isn't as simple as we try to make it out to be.


I agree but I think a lot of average american families who buy Honda per say will buy Honda again and again, where as a family who buys a Chevy may not buy one again. Honda owners are generally loyal. Like with German cars. Where as if you aren't a car guy you probably aren't very loyal to one specific American brand. This all changes if your like us and are gear head.

A lot of it is perception, but based on our latest ford experience the quality to us is not as good as it was.
The truck the 2010 replaced was a 82 f150 300 i6 4speed manual. Paint didn't fall of it until it was 15 years old. The old 89 tbirds paint never failed car never squeaked either. It had close to 300, 000 when it was wrecked. I doubt the focus will go 300, 000 and if it does the last 150, 000 will be miserable for sure.

I realize the comparison isn't a direct comparison. However an average consumer doesn't care. There mind set is if they owned an 2000 camry and then bought a 2010 cruze the cruze should be a nicer longer lasting better made care. It cost more its newer and its more advanced.

So far i know one person who owns a 2012 cruze and 38, 000 miles it popped a head gasket and screwed a few things up and the dealer is fighting to not have to fix it because its out of its 36, 000 bumper 2 bumper warranty and she must have done something to the car to cause the issue......

Problems like that are what make people leave the big 3.
Sad thing is she traded a hyundai sonata with 86, 000 for the cruze the sonata was an 08 or 09. Never had one single issue, not even the battery went bad.
 
As usual, lots of people look at the heyday of Japanese car manufacturers that is 80s and 90s with rose colored glasses. Just because the big three had poor compact offerings doesn't mean their entire lineup was junk. But of course that's what the import fan boys always seem to forget. The fact that the big three had some of the best offerings in large sedan segment, THE BEST PUs and SUVs always seems to be forgotten.

Also, it was easy for Honda and Toyota to excel in US market when they only offered a handful of models, most of them in compact segment, when that market segment was practically handed to them by the big three.
On the other hand just look at how miserable they are doing in Europe, where small cars were always the primary segment and tons of great cars, including the big three offerings, were competing against each other. How come Japanese supposed “superior engineering” did not work there?
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
A lot of incorrect statements in there. One of the biggest that American auotmakers were producing junk in the 80's and 90's and would've failed on a level playing field. Absolutely not and if the Big 3 were playing on a level field with Japanese makers, none of the Big 3 would even been in finacial difficulty at any level.


The cavalier of the 80's and 90's or an escort or the shadow or neon weren't even close to a civic or corolla to pretend like they were is foolish.
Based on quality of product they should've failed. And when they were going bankrupt america bailed them out....
Would American bail out Honda or Toyota? Would they ever even need to?
Go read about Honda they're an excellent company. Worth giving credit to. America companies had the attitude of we are fine they'll drive what we build no reason to try harder.
If the Asian cars never came over we would still be driving junk like the omni the chevette and the pinto. The competition has made american cars better.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
As usual, lots of people look at the heyday of Japanese car manufacturers that is 80s and 90s with rose colored glasses. Just because the big three had poor compact offerings doesn't mean their entire lineup was junk. But of course that's what the import fan boys always seem to forget. The fact that the big three had some of the best offerings in large sedan segment, THE BEST PUs and SUVs always seems to be forgotten.

Also, it was easy for Honda and Toyota to excel in US market when they only offered a handful of models, most of them in compact segment, when that market segment was practically handed to them by the big three.
On the other hand just look at how miserable they are doing in Europe, where small cars were always the primary segment and tons of great cars, including the big three offerings, were competing against each other. How come Japanese supposed “superior engineering” did not work there?



In america they got the segment handed to them because the big 3 didn't want to build small cars. They wanted to build trucks and suv , they were good at that.....to bad during the carter years we had a major fuel crisis......and the way gas is now people want fuel efficient cars. The big 3 didn't listen to the market and they were beaten because of that.
 
I haven't had any major problems with my American cars and I have been buying Chryslers and Chevys for 35 years. I'm not big on Ford, though. Know too many people who had problems with them. But that's a personal choice.
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man
...
So far i know one person who owns a 2012 cruze and 38, 000 miles it popped a head gasket and screwed a few things up and the dealer is fighting to not have to fix it because its out of its 36, 000 bumper 2 bumper warranty and she must have done something to the car to cause the issue......


I thought GM still had the 5yr/100K powertrain warranty in the United States?
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man
http://imgur.com/S8DGD46.jpg

For overkill, my uncle sent me the picture they just got a lot of snow but you should be able to see it clearly.


Has he been after Ford to make it right? To me that looks like a paint defect (defects happen, even with the Japanese
wink.gif
) and should have been covered under warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

Besides which, good reliability is nice but it's not the only factor and the end all be all.


Agreed; I have a 1995 318ti which has been my primary track toy since 1997. Over the past 18 years and 130,000 miles it has required-aside from two sets of pads/rotors and scheduled maintenance-a serpentine belt, a couple of idler pulleys, a brake light switch, a thermostat, a heater hose fitting, and three or four bulbs. I've had a Cobalt owner as well as a Camry owner advise me how much better their cars are since they have not required any similar repairs. That's fine- for them anyway. As for me, the extra $700-$800 I spent over the last 18 years is a screaming bargain if it keeps me from having to drive an anodyne transportation module.
With respect to the younger generation, my 18 year old son likes 5 domestic vehicles: the Challenger SRT8, the Charger SRT8, the Focus ST, the Boss 302 Laguna Seca, and the JK Rubicon. The only Asian car he has time for is the WRX STi. Everything else he likes is European.
Wonder why?
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ram_man

In america they got the segment handed to them because the big 3 didn't want to build small cars. They wanted to build trucks and suv , they were good at that.....to bad during the carter years we had a major fuel crisis......and the way gas is now people want fuel efficient cars. The big 3 didn't listen to the market and they were beaten because of that.


Just so you know, Toyota opened up their big Tundra plant in US and rolled out their new re-designed Tundra that Toyota was betting on to capture some of those lucrative PU sells just in time of our recession and highest fuel price spikes. They lost a lot of money because of that decision, so it's not an exclusive trait to big three
wink.gif


You seem to think that Japanese had some sort of great foresight about the whole success of small segment. They did not. They were forced to build cars in a segment that was weak, otherwise they had no chances of competing with big three because, drum roll... the big three had the superior designs and extensive experience.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You seem to think that Japanese had some sort of great foresight about the whole success of small segment. They did not. They were forced to build cars in a segment that was weak, otherwise they had no chances of competing with big three because, drum roll... the big three had the superior designs and extensive experience.


That's a great point, and not one that's well understood. The fact that they were rolling out these small cars just when oil prices skyrocketed was probably a fortuitous coincidence more than anything else.
 
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