Am I killing my car with TLC?

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: DriveHard
I too drive only 60 even on the 4 lanes when commuting to and from work. Jumps my mpg by 2 versus keeping up with traffic and only takes about 2 more minutes to get to and from work.

I do, however, redline my truck about once every other tank to keep her clean and happy.


Going off on a tangent here but quick (and yes, true) story about the 05 accord:

Back in 07 or so, my job was about 25 miles away with an excellent commute on a major highway (287 to Mahwah). Good roads with only occasional slow downs at that time of day.

I would habitually leave the gym and just hit cruise control at 62 until my exit. The car has NAV so I would keep MPG portion showing. For months on end, I was filling up at 400 miles

Gas prices started climbing and I started to experiment. Hit the cruise control at 55 and I was able to get 500 miles on a tank. Aside from filling the tires to 38 psi, no other changes

Same traffic pattern, same fuel... All the same

That is when I started driving like a grandma. It occurred to me that this car's sweet spot was 55 mph. A mpg increase of 25% is hard to argue against. And I'm not talking one fill up to the next... I'm talking 1.5 years at 62 mph then more at 55 mph.

I suppose I could drum up a fuel savings figure since that time but why bother? I know it's real money in my pocket

Now, I don't trust the NAV to be spot on accurate with MPG but I do trust the odometer

I can see the pitchforks and torches coming at me now... But i know what I know regardless of how incredible this sounds

One more anecdote: a couple years ago, took the car to DC. Filled up at my Shell station and hit the cruise control at 55. Parked at hotel in DC then drove home 2 days later - again, cruise control at 55. Filled up at the same shell upon return and calculated something short of 42 mpg. That's my record

I realize that such driving is very unique, especially in NJ on our highways. But I stay in the slow lane, constantly watch rear view mirror, pay close attention to traffic patterns and I also (especially) make room for tractor trailers - speeding up so as not to be to much of a burden to these professional drivers.

I'm not trying to change the whole world.., just my little piece of it. It's been said my driving is hazardous, which, for the guy using the slow lane to pass and zig zag thru traffic, it probably is. But what about THAT guy and others doing ridiculous speeds with various traffic? Am I really the culprit?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
A Honda i-VTEC engine has a whole set of electronic and mechanical components you are not exercising. And 3000 isn't going to do it, it needs to be taken above 5k for the VTEC transition to occur.


This is not the case in this situation. Finz's Accord has the K24A4 with the "economy version" of i-VTEC, just as our CR-V has (though ours is the K24Z1). In essence, one intake valve stays nearly closed at low load and low speed, and at or around 2,200 rpm, that one intake valve joins the other in opening fully. And that's the extent of the valvetrain mechanism itself on this engine. There is also camshaft phasing on the intake camshaft, but this is occuring all the time, even driven lightly, so it is exercised often. Even driven lightly, the valvetrain mechanism should switch over often enough in this vehicle to consider it "exercised".

Finz, for more information on how the i-VTEC in your engine works, check out this link:

http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/

That describes the K20, or a 2.0L engine in Honda's K-series engine family, but the valvetrain operation described therein is the same as in our K24s, which are 2.4L versions of Honda's K-series engine family.

Gofast182, the CR-V you used to own, a 2010 or 2011 model if I recall correctly, had Honda's K24Z6 or Z8 (sources vary). Either way, this engine, with the 185 hp rating, has a more traditional "3 lobe" VTEC on the intake camshaft, and there is a "crossover" on this engine. This is not the case with all K24s, though, to include Finz's K24A4.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Finz
That's a phenomenal deal on the tranny fluid... I asked a local deal a couple years ago and the said $85. I considered it as I had just spent $45 on the fluid and since I'd never done it before figured since I was here... But that was for my daughter's '98 accord and when I told the guy the car had 170k miles on it and had no idea if it had been changed before, he said they wouldn't do it.

I can understand that... Half the people online I asked said don't touch it as things might fall apart - guy at local auto parts store said the same.

But I figured it's an oil and needs to be changed... If something goes belly up after the fact, I could address it at that time. Besides, I'd never done it before and was anxious to try. What a difference it made... Nice smooth shifting and no leaks

I have changed the PS fluid but not that way... Just a turkey baster - out with the old, in with the new. Did this a few times and I bought the Prestone (for honda) at Walmart which was pretty cheap. Can't say I noticed a change but that's probably a good thing.

Stupid question: With the extension tube for PS, you just bled the fluid with gravity or was car running?

Also did a drain on the brake fluid. Again, no noticeable difference in performance but a good thing to do I think

I have to say, though, I've heard of people marrying because of money, but marrying because she had a honda and you had a drain plug washer? That's a first.

BTW - the "change special" was parts only if I wasn't clear about it.

The method I describe is better described as a purge, since it gets out nearly all of the PSF. It is described in every Honda/Acura factory service manual and is the procedure I've used since I had my '95 Integra factory service manual. I've seen photos of other service manuals, and they usually show someone holding a wide mouth container of some sort. It doesn't come out with any force. It comes out fairly gently, and you could probably use an oil drain pan if you had a long enough extension.

As for doing it with the engine running - absolutely. When I removed the return hose barely anything dripped out as the hose had little fluid in there. A hose extension isn't strictly needed, but it's shown in every service manual and should make it easier. Once the engine is started most of the fluid starts running out. I could see it shooting out from just under the hood. Then it stops and you're supposed to turn lock to lock several times, and more will come out. Of course don't hold it at lock. It may groan, but this is perfectly fine for the short amount of time it takes to do it. Once nothing more comes out you're done purging the fluid and it's time to add fresh fluid. When putting in more fluid, maybe fill above the max line the first time and start it up. Then turn lock to lock a few times, stop the engine, and repeat. After maybe 3 times it will stay at the max line. Since it's not moving you can leave the cap off and check to see if there are any bubbles while it's running. It self purges the air quickly.

Maybe it's me, but I'll buy Honda PSF at the dealer. It was $4.40 for a 12 oz bottle.

 

[Finz]

Thanks Jason - I'll have to read thru a few times for it to sink it but I get the gist... thanks again

 

[Finz]

Good technique YPW... I'll certainly go this route next time.

How often do you change it? No mention in the manual of this being a service item

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Finz, for more information on how the i-VTEC in your engine works, check out this link:

http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/

That describes the K20, or a 2.0L engine in Honda's K-series engine family, but the valvetrain operation described therein is the same as in our K24s, which are 2.4L versions of Honda's K-series engine family.


I am going to quote myself to correct myself. Even that article I posted isn't *exactly* the same as our engines...that article shows a economy-minded version of the traditional 3-lobe VTEC. Our engines don't even have three intake lobes; they have two.

http://asia.vtec.net/spfeature/vtecimpl/vtec1.html

This article, if you scroll down to the VTEC-E section, describes how it works pretty well. It describes ALL of Honda's variations of its VTEC system, but the VTEC-E is most closely related to what's going on in the 160/166 hp K24s that we own.

 

[Artem]

That poor accord. It not enjoying life as Honda designed and intended for it.

How would you feel if @ 50 years old, you were still crawling on all fours while everyone around you has long been walking, jogging and running at full speed...

Now imagine that you finally decided to get up and RUN. How far will you go before everything starts hurting and you have a stroke? Not very far...

That's how your car will feel when someone finally stretches it's legs and gives it the beans. Sadly, the engine and transmission won't last very long after that.

I'm 100% certain that if you were to floor it while getting on the highway, the amount of BLACK SMOKE in your rear view mirror will SCARE YOU as the engine blows out all that Carbon build up that the gallons of snake oil you've added over the years didn't clean

 

[Nick R]

I can't even imagine driving under 2,500RPM all the time. My normal for acceleration that isn't supposed to be vigorous is around 3,000 rpm shifts. And I regularly (at LEAST daily) hit 4,500 or more, usually when merging onto the highway.

There is no harm in driving a little harder, it's made to handle it. I don't get how people treat cars like they are fragile and will fall apart at the slightest provocation: cars are made to be driven, I bet that if you drove it the way I do, it would work just as fine as it does now (maybe even more so).

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: gofast182
A Honda i-VTEC engine has a whole set of electronic and mechanical components you are not exercising. And 3000 isn't going to do it, it needs to be taken above 5k for the VTEC transition to occur.


This is not the case in this situation. Finz's Accord has the K24A4 with the "economy version" of i-VTEC, just as our CR-V has (though ours is the K24Z1). In essence, one intake valve stays nearly closed at low load and low speed, and at or around 2,200 rpm, that one intake valve joins the other in opening fully. And that's the extent of the valvetrain mechanism itself on this engine. There is also camshaft phasing on the intake camshaft, but this is occuring all the time, even driven lightly, so it is exercised often. Even driven lightly, the valvetrain mechanism should switch over often enough in this vehicle to consider it "exercised".

Finz, for more information on how the i-VTEC in your engine works, check out this link:

http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/

That describes the K20, or a 2.0L engine in Honda's K-series engine family, but the valvetrain operation described therein is the same as in our K24s, which are 2.4L versions of Honda's K-series engine family.

Gofast182, the CR-V you used to own, a 2010 or 2011 model if I recall correctly, had Honda's K24Z6 or Z8 (sources vary). Either way, this engine, with the 185 hp rating, has a more traditional "3 lobe" VTEC on the intake camshaft, and there is a "crossover" on this engine. This is not the case with all K24s, though, to include Finz's K24A4.

Thanks for setting me straight, Jason! I completely lost sight of my A and Z variants for a minute there! However I stand by my point that it's beneficial to run the engine up near redline once in a while (more on my personal vehicles).
Yes, my wife's former '10 CR-V had a K24Z6.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
However I stand by my point that it's beneficial to run the engine up near redline once in a while.


Yes, I agree. And yes, I do it as well. As you know, the sound of a J-series at full song after the valvetrain crossover is highly addicting. I imagine that an S2000 at 8,000 RPM is even more habit-forming.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Finz
Thanks fdcg... I'll check that out. Curious: are you from around here? How do you know about this place being from OH?


You're on a site like this and you're seriously asking?
I found it in a thread here, although the dealership might be on Long Island, not in NJ, can't recall.
Anyway, they offer what seem to be exceptional prices on Honda ATF including shipping.
A called a few local Honda/Acura dealers and nobody would come close.
Kind of tells you, though, what the markup must be on Honda branded fluids.

 

[hattaresguy]

A lot of posters on this forum seem determined to blow money and fix old vehicles until they are broke.

 

[Finz]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
A lot of posters on this forum seem determined to blow money and fix old vehicles until they are broke.


Not sure of the intent behind this post hatteresguy... I don't consider an '05 to be an old car with 160k miles on it and there hasn't yet been any real fix required. I see no reason why 250k, 300k + miles can't be realized

My post was related to the usage of the car and what, if anything, I could do to help the car last longer or what I could do differently to prevent any issues down the road.

Most replies have indicated that increases in RPMs might go a long way toward "preventative maintenance" which is an easy thing to do and will only impact my wallet by a few bucks at the gas station

 

[jeepman3071]

I don't think you are killing it.

I wouldn't idle it to warm it up before you drive though. Driving it easy for the first few miles helps warm it up faster, and you will use less fuel.

I use a fuel system cleaner like Marvel Mystery Oil or Seafoam maybe twice a year.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
A lot of posters on this forum seem determined to blow money and fix old vehicles until they are broke.


Not sure of the intent behind this post hatteresguy... I don't consider an '05 to be an old car with 160k miles on it and there hasn't yet been any real fix required. I see no reason why 250k, 300k + miles can't be realized

My post was related to the usage of the car and what, if anything, I could do to help the car last longer or what I could do differently to prevent any issues down the road.

Most replies have indicated that increases in RPMs might go a long way toward "preventative maintenance" which is an easy thing to do and will only impact my wallet by a few bucks at the gas station


It doesn't matter, modern engines are so computer controlled you can do whatever you want with the throttle. Its already ran 160k miles clearly it runs just fine and will do so for quite some time.

You want to run it for XXX number of miles? Here is the big secret, open up the owners manual, maintain it by the book, turn the key and drive. When the odometer hits XXX number of miles great you did it. That's the big secret.

Their are dozens of posts like this, people on this forum spend more time and effort worrying about less and less, and waste more money all looking for some super secret ninja trick to get to some mileage number on their vehicle.

 

[derpanzerwagon]

Bought 1994 Camry 3.0L V-6 driven by college student and family for 126K. I put a new rear seal on crank at 130K to stop a drip. While apart, new timing belts and checked valve play, new plugs, water pump and all gaskets while apart. Since then, no other repairs to engine. Now 318,800 miles and uses about a quart oil every 5K. Only ran mobile one 5-30 and longer purolator one or mobile oil filters - changing only every 10-12000 miles or once a year, about. ran regular purolator air filter. changed power steering and trans fluid once at 250,000. Car runs great - I run it all rpms, never lug engine or beat on it up to redline. warm it up if below 40's F. been a good car. Now gas tank has leaks and needs some small trim parts, so I will sell it to someone who needs a work car. Best engine I ever had. That was my experience - Good luck with yours. Thanks for reading. Ohio - Out.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: DriveHard
I too drive only 60 even on the 4 lanes when commuting to and from work. Jumps my mpg by 2 versus keeping up with traffic

Not using the brakes also makes a huge difference (wasted energy).

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
Originally Posted By: blackman777
It would be good to get your Honda above 3000 and exercise the VTEC camshift a bit. Also rapid accel to the top 5th gear gives better highway MPG. (5th is more efficient than lower gears.) 1500-1600 rpm gives the best fuel economy once you are in 5th.

3000 isn't going to do it, it needs to be taken above 5k for the VTEC transition

Not true for the Insight and Civic hybrid engines. VTEC transition happens as low as 2800 rpm (according to technical, service manual).

And I did mention "rapid accel" to 5th gear..... that implies high rpm. I often do 1-2-5 shift which pegs the redline twice.

Also VTEC @ 5000 sounds awfully high on a car with only 6000-6500 redline. Where did you get that number?