alternative to 5w/40 without full-syn.?

Messages
9,283
Location
Fayetteville, NC
First of all, thanks for all the inputs... So, the Rotella "syn" 5/40 is a SEMI-synthetic.. is the "synthetic" part more or less than some HM oils? say, for ex., Pennzoil HM 10/30 or 40? [I remember reading here that Pennz. HM oils have "quite a bit of" synthetics in them] Which of these would lean more towards synthetic?(I guess it's Rot. 5w/40...??) What I'm trying to achieve is: A) good cold-cranking performance ( a little syn), and B)a 40-weight(i like thick oils for summer, C)WITHOUT the typical seal-seepage/leakege-inducing levels of synthetic oil. (have a rear main seal-leak, running ARx with Chev. dino right now) ..all this with a OTC semi-syn or HM oil ppossible? probably not, but I want to try to find one... and how about the Pennz. syn-blend 15w-40? anybody know how this oil is? (Application: 3500-4000 OCI, 1997 4.6L sohc T-Bird with 88,000 miles, mixed highway/city driving, area: east TN)
 
Messages
2,556
Location
Columbus Ohio
The rotella t syn, is not a blend. It is a GIII base (semi-synthetic). It is not a true GIV or GV base like mobil or redline. It should provide better cold temp properties than conventionals.
 
Messages
425
Rotella is no run-of-the-mill GIII oil. Although GIII it is not hydrocracked, it's derived from Shell's own slack-wax process. A wax isomerate supposedly equal to PAO. The final blended product is chock-full of Shell's own additives too.
 
Messages
6,388
Location
Washington St.
It is not accurate to call an oil made from Group III base stock a "semi-synthetic." I'm not sure what it should be called if it's not called a Gr-III oil, but "semi" means half, and that's not correct. Shell Rotella Synthetic is a full synthetic oil. Group III oils are very good. They are one form of synthetic. Get used to it. Finished oils blended from Group IV (PAO) and Group V (ester) oils can be better. OK. I don't know if Shell makes a particularly good finished product, or if their base oil is better than any other Group III base. I haven't heard any great stories about Shell dino Rotella-T, so I don't expect anything great from Rotella syn...maybe I'm wrong (again, sez the Mrs.). 97tbird, Why not use the high mileage oils for gasoline engines? They'll help with the seal leakage and have the higher viscosity you want. Ken
 

97tbird

Thread starter
Messages
9,283
Location
Fayetteville, NC
If someone wanted to use a non-syn oil, and still get the benefits of a synthetic 5w/40 oil, what woould be the best/closest alternative, in the areas of dino-HM or syn-blend oils?
 
Messages
2,556
Location
Columbus Ohio
If you are referring to the HDD 5w40, then I would imagine that one of the conventional 15w40's would be close (delo 400,delvac 1300,etc). If you are referring to a regular PCMO......something like redline 5w40, then I would imagine that one of the HM 5w30's would be the closest as far as viscosity.
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
To the best of my knoldge their are not any 5W40 GII or GI oils. If there were I would stay far away from them. You can eat your cake and have it too! If you want decent cold weather pumping in extremly cold winter climate you will ned a thin dino like 5W30 or 10W30. If you want a thick film you will need 20W50,15W40 etc..... Their is only one semi-synthetic"makerted as a true synthetic" that I know of that is a 5W40 and is cheap (Rotrlla T SYnthetic 5W40) it is available at Walmart and is $12.98 a gallon. I would not call it the the best of anything though!! The best oils are mail order oils for the most part and they are not cheap even when you are buying dino. You get what you pay for. Schaffers,LE,Cenpeco are all good dino oils but are hard to find and must usualy be mail ordered. Redline,Amsoil,Neo,Motul are some of the premium synthetics and are also hard to find in retail setting and must usualy be mail ordered. P.S. What is the application,OCI and usage cycle like?
 
Messages
4,805
Location
Lakeville, MN
The Rotella T Syn 5w40 is a group III base oil product marketed as a synthetic. I will grant that Shell uses a different procss to generate this Group III than other Group III producers. In any event, under what is considered a "true" synthetic on this board, it is NOT a synthetic or blend, but a good group III oil. I wouldn;t consider it to be different than a dino oil in that repsect. In terms of numbers put up by it, it sure seems to produce very good numbers in the results I've seen - likely one of the most shear stable 0w or 5w40 weight oils regularly seen. At 12.84 a gallon at wal-mart, it is also priced appropriately for a Group III oil.
 

97tbird

Thread starter
Messages
9,283
Location
Fayetteville, NC
".... it is NOT a synthetic or blend, but a good group III oil. I wouldn;t consider it to be different than a dino oil in that repsect." Mngopher, So, if the Rot. 5w/40 iss not different from a dino oil, does that mean it would not have the "leak-finding and seeping- characteristics" of a true synthetic oil, and be safe like a dino in this aspect? I'd love to use a 5w/40 which is "seal-safe", and I've been thinking of the Rotella, and it might be the perfect oil for me, depending on how my above question is answered... Does this oil come in 1 qat. bottles, too? -thanks for the replies.
 
Messages
50
Location
eastern, Pa
This sounds similar to the predicament most late model VW/Audi owners find themselves in. VWoA recommends 5w40 for most of thier gasoline engines which, of coarse, is not commonly available at most North American retailers(yet). They do offer Castrol Syntec 5w40 through the dealerships, but most people just can't swallow the $6.70 per qt. price tag(Quite frankly, I don't blame them) So, VWoA allows the use of 5w30 as a substitute. The dealership I work for uses Mobil Drive Clean 5w30 for all standard and warranty maintanences. I have recommended Rotella T 5w40 to a few of my clients who simply want to save some $$, but still comply with factory standards.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Volkster, What you want is a VW 502/VW 505, rated oil for most of these VW/Audi engines. Anything from a 0w-30 to a 10w-40 synthetic will work fine year round, based on my experience with these engines. For years, the 15w-40 grades were the standard in Europe, and a good 15w-40, SL/Ci-4 rated, commercial engine oil is still fine to use in temps above 15F or so. Below that, you can get into some hard starting issues.... The 0w-40 and 5w-40 grades tend to be less shear stable than a 5w-30 or 10w-30, so they are actually less desirable in some cases, particularly for turbocharged engines .... Tooslick Dixie Synthetics
 
Messages
50
Location
eastern, Pa
TooSlick, what other oils, besides the Castrol products, comply w/VWs 502.00/505.00 specs and say so on the package? I'm aware that the Rotella T 5w40 doesn't but I'm unsure what else does. We do have several customers who bring in thier own synthetic oil for use on warranty maintanences. We don't really discourage the practice nor do we really question thier choice of weight unless its WAY out of line for the usable temperature range(we have many M1 0w30/10w30 users). I don't doubt that the other alternatives have more appropriate and beneficial properties, but on the other side of the coin, we are obligated to stick with the word of VWoA.
 

97tbird

Thread starter
Messages
9,283
Location
Fayetteville, NC
quote:
Originally posted by krholm: [Patriot] Speaking of viscosity spread and shear stable: Do ony of you know how shear stable Chevron Supreme 10W-40 is?
--------------------- krholm, I asked this same question here a while ago, and everybody told me it's not very sheer stable at all; there was a uoa where it thinned out to a 30 weight in about 500 miles.
 
Messages
40
Location
Jersey
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 97tbird: [QB] What I'm trying to achieve is: A) good cold-cranking performance ( a little syn), and B)a 40-weight(i like thick oils for summer, and how about the Pennz. syn-blend 15w-40? anybody know how this oil is? ( You want to go from 5W-40 to 15W-40? You mean from winter to summer, right?
 
Messages
2,556
Location
Columbus Ohio
quote:
Originally posted by 97tbird: So, if the Rot. 5w/40 iss not different from a dino oil, does that mean it would not have the "leak-finding and seeping- characteristics" of a true synthetic oil, and be safe like a dino in this aspect? I'd love to use a 5w/40 which is "seal-safe", and I've been thinking of the Rotella, and it might be the perfect oil for me, depending on how my above question is answered... Does this oil come in 1 qat. bottles, too? -thanks for the replies. [/QB]
I would imagine that Rotella still uses some esters in it to solubilize the additive package.
 

97tbird

Thread starter
Messages
9,283
Location
Fayetteville, NC
quote:
Originally posted by Holden McRoin: [QUOTE]Originally posted by 97tbird: [QB] What I'm trying to achieve is: A) good cold-cranking performance ( a little syn), and B)a 40-weight(i like thick oils for summer, and how about the Pennz. syn-blend 15w-40? anybody know how this oil is? ( You want to go from 5W-40 to 15W-40? You mean from winter to summer, right?
what I meant was I search for an oil i can use all year, 5w-XX there when winter comes, and xx-40 there when summer comes. the question about the 15w-40 Pennz. syn.blend was sort of a seperate question; sorry for not making it very clear. so, does anybody use this 15/40 Penn.zyn.blend?
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
Just for clairty I was not knocking Rotella T Synthetic! I just did not want anyone to take mistake my inclusion of it as rubber stamp of aproval. It is ok but I have not been impressed with it. I guess my problem with it is that it's cold flow and pump numbers are not even close to Delvac1 even though they market it as a competeing product to Delvac1. I did not notice wear the number for it wear any better then for some cheaper group II+ oil like pens longlife and Delo400.
 
Top