Adding Mos2 in a BMW N54 engine with DI?

[JHZR2]

My primary concern is degradation of the MoS2 in an engine that is known to dilute some fuel and run hot. MoS2 shows SO2 offgassing, starting around 550K in a hydrated/oxidizing environment (see fig 12, http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a203741.pdf). Yeah, that's higher than the oil temperatures seen even in an N54, but that engine does dump a lot more thermal energy into the oil.

Second, fuel dilution must be considered for surface destabilization of suspended MoS2 particles. There could be a reaction or effect on the surfactant/surface treatments due to fuel. Common diesel dispersant packages, which are likely similar chemistries to what would stabilize the MoS2 particles can be destabilized and degraded in other oxidizing environments (http://papers.sae.org/2008-01-2375/)

I had added some of the LM Ceratec to the wife's VW rabbit last oil change. Standard, correct dose. The car developed an oil leak from the filter gasket, and not implying that this stuff caused it, BUT, I did find this:

So stagnant locations could build up these sorts of particulates which could make a mess too... Just a little concern, based upon what I saw, FWIW. Not trying to speculate on that here, but just adding the thought process here.

 

[Mystic]

This is great! It reminds me when Bob was doing experiments here testing various supplements. This is some really nice work.

Maybe JHZR2 you could test some other products also?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
This is great! It reminds me when Bob was doing experiments here testing various supplements. This is some really nice work.

Maybe JHZR2 you could test some other products also?


Wasnt really intended. Just added it to see if we noted anything different, since my wife does primarily city and some short trips.

No idea if the filter blow-out was related to me mistorquing it, bad gasket, or overpressure due to the additive agglomerating in the media (no real sign of it, but who knows). But I dont intend to go through that again!

 

[Trav]

I tried Ceratec in my air compressor with similar observations. Frank (Demarpaint) and I were just talking that a few days ago. The stuff congealed in all sorts of places.
With that and what i found in the bottom of the GP oil pan it has put me off solid lubricants additives.

 

[Alext]

Well I hope the LM Mos2 doesn't cause any issues with my N54! I was thinking about adding it to my other cars....

 

[d00df00d]

If it is going to cause issues with your N54, you probably won't know until long after you've made the call to use it in your other cars.

Still waiting for evidence that the engine actually has a problem that the additive can fix...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I tried Ceratec in my air compressor with similar observations. Frank (Demarpaint) and I were just talking that a few days ago. The stuff congealed in all sorts of places.
With that and what i found in the bottom of the GP oil pan it has put me off solid lubricants additives.


It was that conversation, and what I read about Ceramic additives fouling plugs in some instances that turned me off to Ceratec. MoS2 OTOH has been very effective in stopping a small OPE from burning oil. "If" I wanted a moly additive in my cars I'd probably use Bio Tech Engine Protectant over MoS2 as a result of all the reading I've done.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Trav
If any or all of those are in the blend then what does adding more of one or something completely different like MoS2 or Boron Nitride to the mix do?
The point is. With an oil like Mobil 1 0w40 that meets so many specs and is good enough for some of the best manufacturers in the world in their uber expensive high tech engines what gives anyone the idea that a can of xyz is going to improve it in any way. Its a hard sell if you think about it.

Maybe, but if you look at the UOA for Mobil-1 Racing Oil, the moly level is off the charts. That's not unusual for other extreme service oils. A UOA for M1-racing was posted here a few weeks back, but I could not find the thread. Help!

Any thing worth doing is worth doing to excess.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Any thing worth doing is worth doing to excess.

That's... not true at all.

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If it is going to cause issues with your N54, you probably won't know until long after you've made the call to use it in your other cars.


But is there any examples of mos2-related problems? As it is a very old additive there should be if it's possible.

 

[Trav]

The thing with racing oils is they are not expected to live in the engine for extended lengths of time or deal with modern emission control systems.
They are not in the engine long enough for either negative interactions to occur or they don't care about it as the engine will be torn down anyway.

Some of the old Castrol castor racing oil worked very well but were not suitable for street engines.
IMHO comparing racing oils to street oils is apples and oranges, neither is a replacement for the other.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Racing_Oil_FAQs.aspx#FAQs5

http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/motorcycle-and-scooters/racing-oils/r30.html

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If it is going to cause issues with your N54, you probably won't know until long after you've made the call to use it in your other cars.


But is there any examples of mos2-related problems? As it is a very old additive there should be if it's possible.


Car driven 6 mo a year, pan with plenty of MoS2 fallen out on the bottom. I would call that a problem wouldn't you?
The chunks are from junk falling in getting the pan out. Its kind of hard to see but believe me its there. The engine is clean not a sludge or deposit engine.

On the other side of your question is this..
Is there any proof that running it will do anything more than a good synthetic oil will also do?
Why does LM not use it in their own top shelf synthetic oil? They produce both the oil and the additive. Maybe they know it doesn't need it, they certainly wont say. Why would they burn a revenue source.

 

[Nebroch]

That's an interesting picture thank you, I wonder how much mos2 has been added to it. Was the engine in good condition otherwise, or why did you take the pan out?

About those benefits, it has been measured by a BITOG user that engine runs quieter after adding it and oil burning of a worn engine decreases with it according to some statements. Some have said it slightly increases FE, but others couldn't get measurable change.

I don't know what it costs in US but in here I can buy it for 13 usd (with 24 % VAT, for an oil volume of 5 litres), so I guess it isn't such a great money maker for Liqui Moly.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Any thing worth doing is worth doing to excess.

That's... not true at all.

Hear, hear. That's an old Carroll Shelby quote.

My favorite is 'Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.'

 

[Trav]

Pan had a lot of rust which is common with this model so i decided to swap it before it became an issue. Engine in perfect condition otherwise.
Its about Euro 10 inc MwSt, i am sure they are making good money on that.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still waiting for evidence that the engine actually has a problem that the additive can fix...

+1

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Alext
Well I hope the LM Mos2 doesn't cause any issues with my N54! I was thinking about adding it to my other cars....


Well there is likely a different surface chemistry and particle behavior vs ceratec.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still waiting for evidence that the engine actually has a problem that the additive can fix...

+1


+2

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Still waiting for evidence that the engine actually has a problem that the additive can fix...

+1


+2


+3.

 

[Alext]

Engine is fine - just heard good stuff about LM Mos2 and wanted to try in the hope of moderating heat and reducing friction etc as the bottle suggests. Definitely made the engine more quiet on idle anyway. Engine performance is still smooth as ever.