Adding Mos2 in a BMW N54 engine with DI?

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Originally Posted By: dave5358
If you genuinely feel BMW has engineered and specified approved materials so that their vehicle cannot be improved upon, then why are you even in this forum?

Being on this forum does not automatically mean that one is smarter than the BMW engineers that have designed the BMW engines and that have devised the requirements for optimum lubricant.

If you want to play a backyard chemist, go ahead. But to me, you have absolutely no research to prove that what you're doing is helping. And you also have no research to know if what you're doing is possibly hurting.

Alas, I said it before... it's the OP's engine and his money and he's free to experiment with anything he wants. I am just saying that I see no reason to do so and would not do it in my car.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
oil has to have HT/HS of 3.5 cP or above to pass LL-01 spec, regardless if it's a 5w-30 or 0w-40. And hence, none of the BMW-approved 5w-30 oils are efficient to begin with. Good luck being able to find measurable differences in efficiency between a BMW-approved 5w-30 and 0w-40.

Given BMW's obsession with oil approvals, the situation you suggest could certainly occur. And the difference might not be measurable. For whatever reasons, the turbo Subaru owners go for Rotella Xw-40. It may not make the engines run any better, but it makes the argument easier.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dave5358
If you genuinely feel BMW has engineered and specified approved materials so that their vehicle cannot be improved upon, then why are you even in this forum?

Being on this forum does not automatically mean that one is smarter than the BMW engineers that have designed the BMW engines and that have devised the requirements for optimum lubricant.

If you want to play a backyard chemist, go ahead. But to me, you have absolutely no research to prove that what you're doing is helping. And you also have no research to know if what you're doing is possibly hurting.

No one is suggesting they're smarter than BMW engineers. But, engineers tend make compromises for all sorts of reasons and BMW is no exception.

You're right, no backyard chemist is likely to have that kind of research to prove benefit or lack of harm, but companies like Liqui-Moly have done the research. You purchase other products based on a confidence level with the product manufacturer so why is it such a reach to think Liqui-Moly's products will not perform as advertised?
 
LM did the research over half a century ago with oils the same age.
They do not use it in their own high end synthetics but will continue to sell it as long as there is a market segment who wants to buy it.

No one is going to convince me that MoS2 will improve synthetic oils that meet manufacturer spec. There is zero evidence it helps this oil do anything better.
Why did VW recommend its use but no longer does? Why was it sold at MB dealers back in the early 80's for diesels but no longer? Molykote even calls theirs a gear lube now, which is probably one of the applications it does well along with greases.

IMHO This stuff is the mechanical braking system of oil additives, its day has come and long gone but for a few die hards who are unwilling to accept that time has moved on and oil technology has also.

I cant be bothered posting any more after this in this thread, its going nowhere.
I have the feeling if LM put out a paper saying you dont need this in a full synthetic oil the fan club would have a explanation as to why you do and why they would say such a thing.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
No one is going to convince me that MoS2 will improve synthetic oils that meet manufacturer spec. There is zero evidence it helps this oil do anything better.
Why did VW recommend its use but no longer does? Why was it sold at MB dealers back in the early 80's for diesels but no longer?


Weren't old MB diesel with old oil's much faster to wear than newer engines? Like diesels used in W123 series had to be bored every 100-120 miles or so. Maybe MoS² increased that mileage well.
 
Just our of interested what happens to the mineral oil carrier in the LM Mos2...does it break down or evaporate???
 
Originally Posted By: Alext
Just our of interested what happens to the mineral oil carrier in the LM Mos2...does it break down or evaporate???


It becomes part of the mix. IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.

If true, that'd make me want to keep it far away from an N54...
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.

If true, that'd make me want to keep it far away from an N54...


OK
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.

If true, that'd make me want to keep it far away from an N54...

You are only adding 10 oz of it to 7 quarts of oil. At that percentage it won't have ANY affect whatsoever.
Besides that, now days conventional oil is almost as good as synthetic (some people are saying AS good), and SAE30 is stout oil that has NO VII in it.
 
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Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.

If true, that'd make me want to keep it far away from an N54...

You are only adding 10 oz of it to 7 quarts of oil. At that percentage it won't have ANY affect whatsoever.



Then there is no point in adding it then. And what is the HTHS rating of a conventional SAE30 oil?
 
Originally Posted By: wag123
Besides that, now days conventional oil is almost as good as synthetic (some people are saying AS good),

Yet, if you look at the list of LL-01 approved oils, you will not find a single conventional oil on it.

I agree that the term "synthetic" does not constitute a spec and it is mostly a marketing term, and the LL-01 spec does not say that the oil has to be synthetic. But as of today, it seems that a lubricant formulated with conventional oil alone is still not able to pass the stringent tests stipulated in the LL-01 spec. That's not to say that some new breed of conventional oils invented tomorrow won't.
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.

If true, that'd make me want to keep it far away from an N54...

You are only adding 10 oz of it to 7 quarts of oil. At that percentage it won't have ANY affect whatsoever.

Then there is no point in adding it then. And what is the HTHS rating of a conventional SAE30 oil?

The point of adding it is to get the MoS2.
I don't know what the HTHS of the carrier oil is. It has to be a minimum of 2.9, but many high quality conventional SAE30 oils have 3.5 or higher (with some as high as 3.8). Regardless, since any high quality SAE30 oil is nearly newtonian (the shear rate does not affect the viscosity), the HTHS doesn't directly compare to the HTHS of a multi-weight oil.
I reiterate, since the mixture ratio is over 22:1, it won't really have ANY quantifiable affect on the main oil's attributes.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.

If true, that'd make me want to keep it far away from an N54...

You are only adding 10 oz of it to 7 quarts of oil. At that percentage it won't have ANY affect whatsoever.



Then there is no point in adding it then. And what is the HTHS rating of a conventional SAE30 oil?


That's your opinion and that's just fine. Consider this it's not the carrier oil people are buying the product for it's the MoS2.
 
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
IIRC they [Lubro-moly] uses a 30 grade conventional oil as a carrier oil.

If true, that'd make me want to keep it far away from an N54...

You are only adding 10 oz of it to 7 quarts of oil. At that percentage it won't have ANY affect whatsoever.
Besides that, now days conventional oil is almost as good as synthetic (some people are saying AS good), and SAE30 is stout oil that has NO VII in it.



I agree that the concentration rate might be a bit light however I wouldn't go as far as to say it won't have any effect. It will just take longer to achieve the desired plating effect.
Iirc the liqui-moly mos2 carrier oil is an ester,not a conventional however I'm not going to bet the farm on that because I exchanged dozens of emails with liqui-moly,and we discussed motor oil saver as well and I can't remember if both were using an ester or just motor oil saver.
I think it was both but I'm not 100% positive.
Not that it matters a whole lot when you consider its 300ml and a typical sump is 5 litres of oil or more.
 
Clevy, I think that they are concerned about what the possible negative affects might be of adding a 10 oz can of what is mostly SAE30 oil to a 7 qt sump full of LL-01 spec oil in the OP's BMW. My simplified response was, virtually NO affect whatsoever. IMHO, the MoS2 haters are grabbing at straws on this one. Weather it is a conventional or ester based oil, a quality SAE30 oil is an exceptionally shear and temperature stable oil.
 
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You could be right Clevy. Either way the carrier oil, is not why people are buying the product. If the carrier oil is a major concern I suggest the concerned parties contact them. They do reply in short order.
 
I'm not worried about viscometrics. I'm more worried about flash point, volatility, etc. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I don't think there's a place for anything but tough synthetic basestocks and additives in a very high-temp turbocharged DI engine...
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
That's your opinion and that's just fine.

Heh. Two things I'm always fascinated by, in one sentence:

1. Giving unsolicited permission for things that people have already said
2. Using the word "opinion" as a euphemism for "thing I don't think should be taken seriously" (instead of what it actually means)

Passive Aggression 101!
 
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