Adding copper/brass cooler to newer vehicle???

[Loobed]

Is there any problem with connecting a cooler or heat exchanger, made from brass or copper, to a newer vehicle with aluminum heads, block, and radiators? I am using LOWTOX coolant.

I was thinking about buying or making a heat exchanger out of brass and/or copper for my 2001 GM truck with 5.3 engine.

Will copper, brass, or lead from solder show up in a used oil analysis?

Will the copper, brass, or solder damage the coolant or any part of the cooling system?

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: Loobed


Will the copper, brass, or solder damage the coolant or any part of the cooling system?

No having Copper in the cooling system wont hurt a thing.But Dexcool and Dexclones do not play well with Copper, brass and solder. I don't know if your PG coolant is a Dexclone or not.

Need to find out and if it is go with a conventional Silicated green coolant.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
... I don't know if your PG coolant is a Dexclone or not.

Need to find out and if it is go with a conventional Silicated green coolant.



I didn't see anything in the MSDS
http://www.shamrockchicago.com/MSDSPrestLTAf.html

I can't see anything on the Prestone website because I can't get flash.

I don't think Lowtox is compatible with dexcool or its clones.

 

[JimPghPA]

The short answer to the question about if there is any kind of problem? " YES ".
The long answer is a little more complicated. The following is a copy of a post I made on 2/9/10:
Aluminum and Copper are on the opposite ends of the electro negativity chart. They can be used to make a great battery. In other words when both are in the same cooling system expect very bad things to happen. Also note that Brass has Copper in it. Could be a Copper radiator and something else such as metal radiator mounts vs rubber radiator mounts, or the rubber mount(s) might be missing, and or improper cooling solution.
? How do you get new Copper gutters to fall off of a building one year after you put them on?
Answer: Put them on with Aluminum roofing nails.
? How do you get a new $125,000 Aluminum injection molding machine to be a useless hunk of metal one year after it is installed?
Answer: Use brass fittings on the water cooling jacket connections.
You know where the Aluminum is. Where is the Copper? Probably the Radiator. What is different regarding this vehicle that allowed the electrons to flow from one metal to the other metal, where in other vehicle with aluminum blocks this does not happen?
Some possible answers are: Wrong type of metal radiator used with Aluminum block, or metal radiator mounts instead of rubber, or radiator touches frame completing circuit to allow battery action with Aluminum block and Copper radiator (coolant is part of the circuit, it might require metal connection (through the frame of the vehicle) to complete the battery corrosion action). Or coolant that is too acidic. I do not know the specifics of this vehicle. I am just talking about the electro chemistry probably involved here.
PS: The elevated temperatures inside of an engine speed up this battery action.
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However, note, there must be a complete electric circuit for this problem. Sometimes rubber electrical isolation mounts are all all that is required to protect against this problem. But if you are not sure you are better off staying away from using dis-similar metals (especially if they are far apart on the electro-negativity chart).

 

[Chris142]

Jim, your post makes sense, but a good antifreeze "should" prevent any electrolosis from forming between the different metals. Of course if the antifreeze is not changed as needed then all bets are off.

Silicated coolants start protecting metal immediatly while long life coolants can take up to 5000 miles to get working. Certainly don't want Copper and Aluminum unprotected while the LL coolant is getting ready to do it's thing.

 

[Loobed]

What if I put a zinc anode somewhere in the cooling system?

I use to have a zinc anode in my old 1974 Chevy Big Block 454. I think it worked great. I didn't have any leaks. After 10 tears the anode was 50% gone.

So the biggest problem is with the cooling system, and there shouldn't be any problems with the oil.

 

[spackard]

I went from Al core/plastic end caps to Cu core/brass endcaps on an Al block/head several years ago. I liked the idea of rebuildability, it's what the radiator shop had, and I grew up with it. I knew about dissimilar metals but mentally minimized it.

I never had problems with white deposits forming on the cooling rows before but I had problems as soon as I did the switch. A month ago I switched back, because I thought I had a leak (turns out it was probably just a radiator hose that became too stiff).
It's too early to tell if the white deposit problem has gone away.

When I was contemplating the switch I Googled a few things about design affecting efficiency. This is one of the results that sums up most of what I came across (a good Al is better than a good Cu/brass):
http://www.dewitts.com/pages/whyaluminum.asp

Or another, just slightly more technical.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0211_aluminum_or_copper_radiator_for_your_car/index.html

 

[JimPghPA]

Your 1974 Chevy Big Block 454 was Iron, not Aluminum.

I do not remember the location of Zinc on the electro-negativity chart, but you could look it up, and then look up Iron and Aluminum. The metals that are far away from it will have problem reactions with it.

 

[mechtech2]

Wouldn't he brass and copper have to be physically touching each other for problems?

Like when my college biology prof made a beautiful aluminum canoe, and used pretty brass rivets? Epic fail!

Many heater cores and replacements are copper. I have not seen electrolysis problems.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Your 1974 Chevy Big Block 454 was Iron, not Aluminum.

I do not remember the location of Zinc on the electro-negativity chart, but you could look it up, and then look up Iron and Aluminum. The metals that are far away from it will have problem reactions with it.



(I made a mistake, it was a 73)

My 454 had an aluminum manifold, waterpump, and thermostat housing.