A solution to Direct Injection carbon issues?

[Graham Piccinini]

I am not affiliated with this company in any way, shape, or form. But seems like it could help with many carbon and LSPI issues of the Direct Injection engines. I may be overlooking something though, so feel free to post your opinions and facts on whether this is a good/bad idea and why.

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From their website:

Expect These Benefits​

-Increase in fuel economy by reducing friction
-Reduced valve-to-seat wear
-Eliminate sticking valves; quieter valve train
-Removal of carbon deposits which cause pre-ignition
-Protection of valve stems, guides, seats, rings, and cylinder bores
-Increased compression, power, efficiency and engine life!

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Some of their products, ranging just in capacity, as far as I can tell.

Products – Ampco Lubricators LLC

www.ampcolubes.com

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Stole a few pics from their customer gallery.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Basically just a drip oiler, operated by engine vacuum. Seems to make sense in many applications. Obviously don't see many Direct Injection users (yet), so brought this product from the dead for discussion.

 

[oldhp]

As long as it didn't affect the air/fuel ratio too much. I don't see what it could hurt, only help to keep intake valves/seats clean.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Or you could just throw some two stroke oil into your gas tank.

 

[ctechbob]

Or you could just throw some two stroke oil into your gas tank.

That won't do anything for the GDI problem they are attempting to eliminate.

 

[tcp71]

pretty sure cat converters don't like extra oil in the exhaust. Not sure how oil will clean intake valves. Detergents, fine, but oil??? All the pictures seem to be of ancient engines getting oil as a top end lube...not modern direct injection engines. Complete snake oil for a modern DI engine, in my opinion.

 

[ctechbob]

pretty sure cat converters don't like extra oil in the exhaust. Not sure how oil will clean intake valves. Detergents, fine, but oil??? All the pictures seem to be of ancient engines getting oil as a top end lube...not modern direct injection engines. Complete snake oil for a modern DI engine, in my opinion.

That and from what I understand oil is the GDI problem. Oil is what cooks to the backside of the valves, so I don't see how injecting more oil into the intake would help.

Now, if you had a system to drip feed PEA(Techron/GDI Intake Cleaners/Etc) into the intake......

 

[oldhp]

That and from what I understand oil is the GDI problem. Oil is what cooks to the backside of the valves, so I don't see how injecting more oil into the intake would help.

Now, if you had a system to drip feed PEA(Techron/GDI Intake Cleaners/Etc) into the intake......

Why couldn't a person fill it with Techron?

 

[Accent Abuser]

Or you could just throw some two stroke oil into your gas tank.

And hit the intake with a good intake valve cleaner every 10,000 miles. There are multiple products designed to do this and in my experience they work quite well.

 

[ctechbob]

And hit the intake with a good intake valve cleaner every 10,000 miles. There are multiple products designed to do this and in my experience they work quite well.

I'm currently doing half a can of BG or CRC every oil change, which is 5k, so we'll see how that does in 100k, Usually keep things a long time so unless it blows up, I should still have it in 10-15 years

 

[demarpaint]

It's an inverse oiler. Marvel Mystery Oil sold them decades ago. They might have some merit in helping with DI issues. Flame suit on.

 

[Jetronic]

doesn't the pcv accomplish the same thing?

 

[97K15004WD]

doesn't the pcv accomplish the same thing?

Yeah, kinda if you want to put oil into the intake system with vacuum. instead, I would think a catch can would help eliminate oil residue and water/methanol injection (or techron, etc) would help keep the valves clean.

Understanding how the valves get dirty in the first place is the key to beginning to solve the issue. Flow reversion causes the buildup on the valves in most cases (as I understand it as I am not a mechanical engineer), so preventing the buildup may not be possible without something being done upstream of the intake valves.

Only solution then is to clean it off with injection upstream of the valve that dissolves the buildup (either with additional fuel, additive, etc.). I believe there is a manufacturer that is experimenting with an additional injector upstream that is putting a small amount of fuel into the air stream ahead of the valves to help prevent buildup.

 

[Bailes1992]

I'm assuming as most DI engines are turbocharged that this would have to 'inject' pre-turbo? Or I imagine the boost pressure would start breaking things?

 

[spasm3]

That and from what I understand oil is the GDI problem. Oil is what cooks to the backside of the valves, so I don't see how injecting more oil into the intake would help.

Now, if you had a system to drip feed PEA(Techron/GDI Intake Cleaners/Etc) into the intake......

Completely agree, now if you could use that system to atomize b-12, and or techron. But i'm thinking that set up would be a fire hazard with those chemicals.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

With regards to modern engines this marketing is borderline fraudulent. Upper cylinder lubricant should be placed up there with Slick 50.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yeah, kinda if you want to put oil into the intake system with vacuum. instead, I would think a catch can would help eliminate oil residue and water/methanol injection (or techron, etc) would help keep the valves clean.

Understanding how the valves get dirty in the first place is the key to beginning to solve the issue. Flow reversion causes the buildup on the valves in most cases (as I understand it as I am not a mechanical engineer), so preventing the buildup may not be possible without something being done upstream of the intake valves.

Only solution then is to clean it off with injection upstream of the valve that dissolves the buildup (either with additional fuel, additive, etc.). I believe there is a manufacturer that is experimenting with an additional injector upstream that is putting a small amount of fuel into the air stream ahead of the valves to help prevent buildup.

Toyota and VW/Audi are two off hand which implemented secondary port injection on their DI engines. Today the reality is that carbon build up on DI engines is NOT causing drivability issues. Automakers have developed tricks to address it (ex, better PCV systems, injection of some fuel while intake valve open.

Yes some buildup may be present but it's not the same as build up which impacts drivability or performance (power, FE).

 

[JTK]

I think the only way it would potentially keep the back sides of the valves clean is if it was used from day one on the vehicle. Even so, with the design of the intake manifolds, there's no way it's going to get evenly dispersed to each cylinder.

Given the fact of what it takes to blast the cooked on crap off of the valves once it's built up, I don't see this doing anything but shortening the life of your catalytic converters.