96 Civic 2200mi Supertech Full Syn 5w30

[researcher]

I was a fan of the Supertech Full Syn oil with everything that I researched before trying it in the 96 Civic. I will say that I'm not that impressed at all. It sheared down to a 5w20 in only 6 months and this with nothing but 90% highway driving! Plus I didn't like seeing a rise in wear numbers for Lead. Not a trend I'd like to see. Even Blackstone believed it was a 5w20 to start with (it wasn't), ouch!

Now I'm onto searching for another oil that doesn't shear like water in 2200 miles/6 months! It's not like the Civic is rough on oil, just the opposite. Also, the oils in the chart are Magnatec (newer formula), then the 2 with Titanium were the older Magnatec, before that was Toyota branded oil (not sure if it's syn, don't think so).

Anyone have any recommendations for an oil that doesn't shear down like this?

 

[JavierH19]

QS euro 5w-40 at wallys never seems to fail.

 

[BISCUT]

Do you know where your Super T came from? Warren?? or unknown?

 

[researcher]

Yes, it came from Highline Warren, which made it for Walmart (Supertech).

 

[himemsys]

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn SuperTech. I've never noticed ST oils to be particularly shear prone (like M1 AFE 0W30 is). Are you sure there's not something else going on? Perhaps you accidentally used 5W20 or bought 5W30 that came with 5W20 inside. Or the fuel dilution played a bigger role this time around. With a flashpoint of 370, the fuel% is certainly higher than 0.8%. Probably closer to 2-3% if tested with gas chromatography. Do you still have the jug you used? Do you have some oil left in it? If so you could send a sample in for a virgin analysis to set the record straight.

 

[researcher]

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn SuperTech. I've never noticed ST oils to be particularly shear prone (like M1 AFE 0W30 is). Are you sure there's not something else going on? Perhaps you accidentally used 5W20 or bought 5W30 that came with 5W20 inside. Or the fuel dilution played a bigger role this time around. With a flashpoint of 370, the fuel% is certainly higher than 0.8%. Probably closer to 2-3% if tested with gas chromatography. Do you still have the jug you used? Do you have some oil left in it? If so you could send a sample in for a virgin analysis to set the record straight.

It was definitely 5w30 and a sealed jug at that. Good idea if I can find the original jug to test it. I have checked everything with the engine/ignition/fuel system, everything checks out fine. But what I am going to do is ask the lab to re-test because the results don't make any sense just very odd.

And if let's say the original was labeled 5w30 but was 5w20 inside that would be a first for me and a last for Supertech, not in the business of having to pre-test every jug I buy, that would be crazy..

 

[himemsys]

It was definitely 5w30 and a sealed jug at that. Good idea if I can find the original jug to test it. I have checked everything with the engine/ignition/fuel system, everything checks out fine. But what I am going to do is ask the lab to re-test because the results don't make any sense just very odd.

And if let's say the original was labeled 5w30 but was 5w20 inside that would be a first for me and a last for Supertech, not in the business of having to pre-test every jug I buy, that would be crazy..

Yeah, I know. I've never seen or heard of that happening, but it is a remote possibility that I felt worth mentioning.

 

[researcher]

Yeah, I know. I've never seen or heard of that happening, but it is a remote possibility that I felt worth mentioning.

And no problem, I welcome your comments! It would make a lot of sense with such a simple explanation of the results I am seeing, I'll ask them to re-test since it's an odd lab result, but thanks for those thoughts. It makes me think that might be the answer! I have no proof but it sounds logical.

 

[himemsys]

And no problem, I welcome your comments! It would make a lot of sense with such a simple explanation of the results I am seeing, I'll ask them to re-test since it's an odd lab result, but thanks for those thoughts. It makes me think that might be the answer! I have no proof but it sounds logical.

I'd also consider the fuel dilution possibility. That could easily explain the loss of viscosity. Maybe your car does not have a fuel problem, but maybe you did a lot more idling than usual on this OCI? Here is my one data point. One of my vehicles I always take it on a ~30 mile highway drive before draining and sampling. And every time the flashpoint is above 400 with a normal viscosity. There was ONE time I got lazy and decided to idle the engine for several minutes just before changing the oil, including revving it up to 2000-3000 rpm for a bit. The result of that oil analysis? Flashpoint of 380 and slightly lower viscosity. I could imagine if there was lots of idling throughout the OCI over several months (especially if in the winter and warming the car up before driving) that eventually it would effect the viscosity and flashpoint much more than usual.

But looking again, I see that your flashpoint has been below 400 for the last 4 analyses.

 

[OVERKILL]

You have fuel dilution, just look at the flashpoint. I'm not a defender of Supertech by any stretch of the imagination, but you have considerable fuel (370F flashpoint) which isn't adequately captured by Blackstone, who doesn't actually measure fuel, it's just inferred. I'd try another lab that does GC fuel to get a better handle on where things actually sit.

 

[researcher]

I'd also consider the fuel dilution possibility. That could easily explain the loss of viscosity. Maybe your car does not have a fuel problem, but maybe you did a lot more idling than usual on this OCI? Here is my one data point. One of my vehicles I always take it on a ~30 mile highway drive before draining and sampling. And every time the flashpoint is above 400 with a normal viscosity. There was ONE time I got lazy and decided to idle the engine for several minutes just before changing the oil, including revving it up to 2000-3000 rpm for a bit. The result of that oil analysis? Flashpoint of 380 and slightly lower viscosity. I could imagine if there was lots of idling throughout the OCI over several months (especially if in the winter and warming the car up before driving) that eventually it would effect the viscosity and flashpoint much more than usual.

But looking again, I see that your flashpoint has been below 400 for the last 4 analyses.

I see what you mean and looking closer at the older data, if you look at the two on the right, look at the date, only 3 months and flashpoint is fine. And that wasn't supertech, that was Toyota's brand of oil. I'm thinking that I'm keeping the oil in there way too long. The current result was a 6 month oil change interval. Even the severe service schedule back in the day for the 96 said 3months or 3750miles for an oil change. Oil technology has gotten better but the civic of 96 didn't change it's design.. I think for this next interval I'm going to try 3 months and see how it looks, I bet it will look better.

I 'm starting to believe that I might have gotten (no way to prove it, cannot find the old bottle, was looking this morning) 5w20 in a 5w30 bottle. Those two lab results on the right of the chart, those were Toyota 5w20, the numbers look the same for viscosity! The middle ones with viscosity in the 9's were 5w30. Thanks for that idea. Not so crazy at all!

Oh forgot to mention.. When the oil was taken it was fresh of a nice long highway drive (about 60 miles). I know what you mean about taking it when it's cold, could have fuel in it, not hot enough to bake it off. Thanks for mentioning it!

You have fuel dilution, just look at the flashpoint. I'm not a defender of Supertech by any stretch of the imagination, but you have considerable fuel (370F flashpoint) which isn't adequately captured by Blackstone, who doesn't actually measure fuel, it's just inferred. I'd try another lab that does GC fuel to get a better handle on where things actually sit.

Hey @OVERKILL I do agree I'll be looking for another lab that does GC, I think that's Polaris. If I'm going to spend this money might be doing it with a lab that gives me a better picture than just a guess on fuel % level..

 

[Artem]

Yea but you can still see the health of the oil just fine by only looking at flashpoint. Idk why the crazy desire to see fuel in a percentage. we have yet to see anything over 4-5% where engine wear was also elevated at the same time. It’s always the same 2-3% fuel. And…? Obviously it’s not enough to cause the oil to fail it’s Job.

 

[Oliveoil2]

40k miles on a 1996?

 

[researcher]

40k miles on a 1996?

Look at the top of the lab sheet.. new odometer/speedometer, replaced it 40k miles ago.

 

[himemsys]

Look at the top of the lab sheet.. new odometer/speedometer, replaced it 40k miles ago.

Off topic, but how does that work with insurance and dept of motor vehicles? Are the miles on the new odo added to the last good value of the old odo?

 

[Artem]

Off topic, but how does that work with insurance and dept of motor vehicles? Are the miles on the new odo added to the last good value of the old odo?

Something this old is simply marked “mileage exempt” on the title and nobody cares about it. We see it all the time at our shop.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yea but you can still see the health of the oil just fine by only looking at flashpoint. Idk why the crazy desire to see fuel in a percentage. we have yet to see anything over 4-5% where engine wear was also elevated at the same time. It’s always the same 2-3% fuel. And…? Obviously it’s not enough to cause the oil to fail it’s Job.

You can't discern that from a UOA, you know that, we've discussed this before. I've also shared several papers on the negative effects of fuel dilution and this was also covered at the @High Performance Lubricants open house (which I believe @RDY4WAR has shared the comments from previously) with regards to reducing the effectiveness of additives.

I appreciate your skepticism, but this is a subject that's been well researched and there is plenty of data available. To claim that because you haven't seen sufficient evidence via $20 UOA's that this somehow negates that body of proof is, quite frankly, silly, and I tend to be kinder on the framing of this stuff than @kschachn.

On the topic of fuel dilution, given that this is a 1996 vehicle with port injection and not DI, and this appeared to start happening in 2019, I'd suspect he has a sticking or leaking injector.

Also not sure why you would dismiss wanting to have an accurate representation of fuel as a "crazy desire". Blackstone constantly misrepresents the volume of fuel in the oil, we see this regularly, because they also include a percentage along with the flashpoint. That has led to people concluding, regularly, over the years, that they have experienced shear, when in reality, it is fuel dilution, or primarily fuel dilution.

 

[Bellavita]

I was a fan of the Supertech Full Syn oil with everything that I researched before trying it in the 96 Civic. I will say that I'm not that impressed at all. It sheared down to a 5w20 in only 6 months and this with nothing but 90% highway driving! Plus I didn't like seeing a rise in wear numbers for Lead. Not a trend I'd like to see. Even Blackstone believed it was a 5w20 to start with (it wasn't), ouch!

Now I'm onto searching for another oil that doesn't shear like water in 2200 miles/6 months! It's not like the Civic is rough on oil, just the opposite. Also, the oils in the chart are Magnatec (newer formula), then the 2 with Titanium were the older Magnatec, before that was Toyota branded oil (not sure if it's syn, don't think so).

Anyone have any recommendations for an oil that doesn't shear down like this?
View attachment 140863

What is the recommended OCI in your owners manual?

 

[himemsys]

What is the recommended OCI in your owners manual?

I looked it up because stuff like that is on the internet. Normal: 7500 miles or 12 months. Severe: 3750 miles or 6 months.

That said, it goes without saying that today's oils are much better than they were in '96 and can be pushed much further. I think today's baseline is 5000 miles unless you have a severe fuel diluting vehicle.

 

[addyguy]

If you are in a warm climate, I’d try an inexpensive 10W-30 HDEO.
That said, you are getting worked up over nothing - 2ppm higher lead in one interval is noise/calibration issues, not a massive increase in wear.