626,000 mile Pentastar teardown

[JustN89]

I like the comments about how 625k miles is wonderful. When Toyota tore down the first million mile 4.7L in the 2007 Tundra, they said it had better performance than when new and looked like it barely had any use on it.

That truck was also driven cross-country multiple time hauling loads well below what it was rated for. Not exactly apples to apples here.

What I don't understand is how in nearly every thread on here which brings something positive to a brand/engine that's not Toyota, people feel like it's their obligation to come in and tout how it's not nearly as impressive as what Toyota did/does. I have nothing against Toyota, but it gets extremely tiresome. Toyota isn't paying you- it's okay to not compare other brands to them all of the time. You're not the only one to do this, you're just the latest one.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

We have a 2014 Wrangler, the engines itself has been fine. However I have had to replace the oil cooler at 80k maybe eight or nine months ago, and also had to replace the oil control solenoid in the oil pump itself, which was a super ishty job and I hope I don't have to do it again. The pressure switch in the cooler was also replaced under warranty years ago. It also went through a radiator in about 65k. Those things are somewhat annoying but then some other stuff I figure would wear out quickly, (because it has larger tires and a small lift and goes off road regularly) like ball joints, wheel bearings, brakes etc have all been mostly fine.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

That truck was also driven cross-country multiple time hauling loads well below what it was rated for. Not exactly apples to apples here.

What I don't understand is how in nearly every thread on here which brings something positive to a brand/engine that's not Toyota, people feel like it's their obligation to come in and tout how it's not nearly as impressive as what Toyota did/does. I have nothing against Toyota, but it gets extremely tiresome. Toyota isn't paying you- it's okay to not compare other brands to them all of the time. You're not the only one to do this, you're just the latest one.

How did the Chrysler get 625k miles in 6 years if it wasn’t driven In optimum conditions?

 

[JustN89]

How did the Chrysler get 625k miles in 6 years if it wasn’t driven In optimum conditions?

They don't say, unlike they did with the Tundra. However, most Promasters are employed for local deliveries. Nearly all of the Amazon delivery vans around here are either Promasters or MB vans.

That said, this really wasn't the point of my post. My point is that we don't need Toyota white knights rolling into every thread about other makes to spout Toyota's divine providence to the automotive community.

 

[IndyFan]

Toyota has had their share of issues, such as engines with major sludging and rusting out frames. They are great, but they are made by human beings, too.

The video did describe the oil change pattern for the engine, so I think it is fairly clear how it got there.

 

[BlakeB]

Sounds like it had an oil change every 6 weeks based on some of those numbers using synthetic oils. Possibly once a month if it ran a 7 day work week. I didn't listen to the full video so not sure if it mentioned oil weight. Impressive nonetheless.

 

[wwillson]

I like the comments about how 625k miles is wonderful. When Toyota tore down the first million mile 4.7L in the 2007 Tundra, they said it had better performance than when new and looked like it barely had any use on it.

I would say both 625k and 1m miles are both fantastic

 

[IndyFan]

I like the comments about how 625k miles is wonderful. When Toyota tore down the first million mile 4.7L in the 2007 Tundra, they said it had better performance than when new and looked like it barely had any use on it.

Lol, so 625,000 miles is not good enough. Right.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Lol, so 625,000 miles is not good enough. Right.

Well I didn't quite mean it that way. Yes, it is "good enough" but then there's plenty of folks that would say it should make it that far under most conditions.

Look, as much as many vehicles cost today, the engine SHOULD make a million miles with proper maintenance. It's said daily that today's oils are the best ever and they obviously are - look at how 0W20 oils are holding up with engines going 300k+ miles in consumer vehicles and how the UOAs are coming back.

I'd like to see the interiors hold up as good as the engines.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Toyota has had their share of issues, such as engines with major sludging and rusting out frames. They are great, but they are made by human beings, too.

No doubt. I think Toyota learned their lesson on the sludging from the early 2000's or so. The rusty frames - That was a supplier problem - Dana? Yes, Toyota or any manufacturer should perform QC testing on supplier parts at intervals if they want to maintain a namesake.

 

[IndyFan]

Well I didn't quite mean it that way. Yes, it is "good enough" but then there's plenty of folks that would say it should make it that far under most conditions.

Look, as much as many vehicles cost today, the engine SHOULD make a million miles with proper maintenance. It's said daily that today's oils are the best ever and they obviously are - look at how 0W20 oils are holding up with engines going 300k+ miles in consumer vehicles and how the UOAs are coming back.

I'd like to see the interiors hold up as good as the engines.

I would agree with you 100% if we were talking 200,000 miles or maybe even 300k. Then there's reality, which is entirely different. In my opinion, an engine that reaches 300,000 miles is an outstanding engine. Even today, even with today's cost. Even here on Bitog where all of us maintenance nerds treat our engines better than some of children, it is exceedingly rare to see an example that makes it to half a million miles, let alone get another lifetime past it.

I've been on Bitog since 2005 and can tell you that from what I've seen, ANY gas engine making it past 500k is an exceptional engine. If not, then this thread wouldn't nearly so interesting.

 

[sloinker]

Someone was asking about how many transmissions in that 600k miles? There is a 62TE , 500k mile transmission on YouTube being rebuilt for the first or second time out of a Pentastar Pro Master van. Maybe it's the same one?

 

[Silverado12]

How does E-85 affect the lubrication inside a Pentastar 3.6? I can maybe see cylinder walls, but not cams or other parts. Oil dilution shouldn't be that bad. I can understand the start/stop function, though. Please explain how this works as I'm fascinated with this post.

 

[sloinker]

How does E-85 affect the lubrication inside a Pentastar 3.6? I can maybe see cylinder walls, but not cams or other parts. Oil dilution shouldn't be that bad. I can understand the start/stop function, though. Please explain how this works as I'm fascinated with this post.

The alcohol dilution and cylinder wall washing is much harsher with alcohol than gasoline. Race vehicles that run alcohol or methanol fuels get constant and immediate oil changes for this reason.

 

[IndyFan]

This made me curious, so I asked my nephew about it. He owns 4Piston Racing. They make primarily 4 cylinder NA drag racing engines, but also have a midget car engine. He said racers tend to run whatever cheapest oil they can get, lol. He said their midget engine runs 20w50 because methanol runs really hot and they need the 50 weight to maintain oil pressure. While racers run the cheapest oil they can find, he said they want a high level of zinc. He said his company´s preferred oil is Royal Purple XPR. He said others prefer Amsoil, Driven, or Valvoline VR-1. He said the Valvoline is probably the most popular because it can be had at Autozone and because it is simply very good oil.

If you are into midget racing, keep an eye on them. They are making more HP than the bigger names. Right now, they have one team, and that team is on a shoestring budget. The driver is Ethan Mitchell. They punched well above their weight at the recent Midget Nationals after recovering from a damaged engine due to oil filter failure (possibly caused by error in installation, but I´m not 100% sure about that.) The team has some great folks running it and make for a fun underdog story. The engine is a Honda, but Honda has nothing to do with it in terms of the build or backing.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I would agree with you 100% if we were talking 200,000 miles or maybe even 300k. Then there's reality, which is entirely different. In my opinion, an engine that reaches 300,000 miles is an outstanding engine. Even today, even with today's cost. Even here on Bitog where all of us maintenance nerds treat our engines better than some of children, it is exceedingly rare to see an example that makes it to half a million miles, let alone get another lifetime past it.

I've been on Bitog since 2005 and can tell you that from what I've seen, ANY gas engine making it past 500k is an exceptional engine. If not, then this thread wouldn't nearly so interesting.

It's not the engine...it's that the rest of the vehicle usually doesn't make it.

 

[sloinker]

This made me curious, so I asked my nephew about it. He owns 4Piston Racing. They make primarily 4 cylinder NA drag racing engines, but also have a midget car engine. He said racers tend to run whatever cheapest oil they can get, lol. He said their midget engine runs 20w50 because methanol runs really hot and they need the 50 weight to maintain oil pressure. While racers run the cheapest oil they can find, he said they want a high level of zinc. He said his company´s preferred oil is Royal Purple XPR. He said others prefer Amsoil, Driven, or Valvoline VR-1. He said the Valvoline is probably the most popular because it can be had at Autozone and because it is simply very good oil.

If you are into midget racing, keep an eye on them. They are making more HP than the bigger names. Right now, they have one team, and that team is on a shoestring budget. The driver is Ethan Mitchell. They punched well above their weight at the recent Midget Nationals after recovering from a damaged engine due to oil filter failure (possibly caused by error in installation, but I´m not 100% sure about that.) The team has some great folks running it and make for a fun underdog story. The engine is a Honda, but Honda has nothing to do with it in terms of the build or backing.

Is he using his sponsor's product? ZMax? I have been a lifetime racing fan and have spent my share of time in the pits. The oil on methanol cars is usually changed every race or certain number of laps for better funded teams. Driven is widely used nowadays but there is a wide range of other products being used. I can tell you that the winning teams don't skimp when it comes to spending the money on quality oils. The fact that the oil is changed so often does allow leeway in some quality issues. The trend is lighter viscosity for horsepower. I doubt there are many feature winners running 50W in this day and age.

 

[IndyFan]

It's not the engine...it's that the rest of the vehicle usually doesn't make it.

That´s cute, but few gas engines make it to 500k, let alone 625k.

 

[IndyFan]

Is he using his sponsor's product? ZMax? I have been a lifetime racing fan and have spent my share of time in the pits. The oil on methanol cars is usually changed every race or certain number of laps for better funded teams. Driven is widely used nowadays but there is a wide range of other products being used. I can tell you that the winning teams don't skimp when it comes to spending the money on quality oils. The fact that the oil is changed so often does allow leeway in some quality issues. The trend is lighter viscosity for horsepower. I doubt there are many feature winners running 50W in this day and age.

I don´t know if they use it or not. I can ask. I would imagine they do, unless rules prevent it.

The Valvoline may be inexpensive, but he says it is excellent oil, so you can get the best of both worlds. High budget teams have the luxury of doing what they want, so I know what you mean. His engine is with a team with less than a shoe-string budget. They are running 50w, and for the reasons I stated. He knows his stuff and if the benefit of lighter oil outweighed the drawbacks, they´d be running it.

Watch and see how they do. That engine is putting out as much power as the best out there, maybe more, and is doing it at half the cost.

 

[IndyFan]

Here is his reply regarding running lighter oil:

¨Some guys run lighter oil. They have to run tighter clearances, but i think he is speaking generally. There is power in oil, there is power I'm running tighter clearances. The problem is not all racing is equal and I'll sacrifice 2hp if my Engine lasts 3 more races on thicker oil. Also they might make 2hp on the dyno when that engine ships, but after 5 events of hell, I might make 10 more because mine was in better condition.

There's an old saying in racing....run your oil clearances a tad too loose and only you know about it. Run them too tight and everyone will know about it.¨