Or if they did, I've seen drain plugs and a small cartridge filter in the side of the case.
40 year old motorcycle shop recommends Conventional 10-40 Castrol only
- Thread starter cbrf3
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Look closely at his picture. This bike has a very rare 4-into1 Bassani racing exhaust system. The original exhaust was a heavy, black chrome, 4-into-2 unit that obviously gave access to the oil drain plug and filter housing. The Bassani was made for performance and didn't give much concern for oil change convenience.
I believe the center stand also had to be removed when this exhaust was installed.
I believe the center stand also had to be removed when this exhaust was installed.
I missed that photo posted by the OP ... correct you are, not a stock exhaust system.
Ask if he ever seen a new bike clutch slipped using synthetics??? I bet the answer is going to be no and here is why...
The holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation 3)Experience...
employing those tools we observe that the primary cause clutch slip
are high mileage... mileage is the constant among all of the clutches
that begin to slip... oil choice whether synthetic or not is not a
constant... High mileage is the constant where all clutches begin to
loose grip due to normal glazing and contaminates that build up over use...
Ask enough shops and the majority favor synthetic oils including my shop...
Understanding synthetics means more refining to remove less desirable
elements from crude until what’s left is mostly higher-performing
molecular structures. Waxy stuff had to go because it made oil congeal
at winter temperatures. Aromatics had to go because they lost
viscosity too rapidly when hot. Unsaturates had to go because they
were vulnerable to heat-driven gumming and sludging. And so on.
Synthetics were refined from crude to give owners advantages conventional oils could not...
technically speaking they will meet and exceed your mileage expectations...
Manufacture synthetic goals refined from good old crude oil..
Higher viscosity index
Better viscosity stability at varied temperatures
Better chemical and shear stability
Consistent fluidity
Better lubricity at low temperatures
Faster lubrication at start-up in low temperatures
Resistance to oxidation (thickening), thermal breakdown, and oil sludge problem
Excellent protection at high temperatures
Engine cleanliness
Outstanding protection against harmful deposits
Cleaner running engines
Lower oil evaporation
More engine power
Lower maintenance cost
Me and my GPz 550 enjoying the synthetic advantage with no clutch grip problems due to the purity of the oil...
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Back in the day, I had a GPZ500S, 2-cylinder, liquid cooled. I was told it was half a GPz900 engine.
It was the model after the GPz550, 4-cylinder, air-cooled. Which a mate had in classic GPz red.
I ran Castrol TXT10W40 "synthetic technology" in mine. I believe it was an early Group-III synthetic, made for cars, but no clutch slip problems
Not mine below, but it looked similar, except all blue.
It was the model after the GPz550, 4-cylinder, air-cooled. Which a mate had in classic GPz red.
I ran Castrol TXT10W40 "synthetic technology" in mine. I believe it was an early Group-III synthetic, made for cars, but no clutch slip problems
Not mine below, but it looked similar, except all blue.
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I'm sure there are car oil and m/c clutch combinations that are fine for the long haul, but sorting them out with MY equipment is not a gamble I like to take. Others have done it and are quite confident, more power to them. There are plenty of good choices for reasonable money out there with the JASO MA or MA2 rating.
I like to point out that Honda's GN-4 oils have very little in the way of specs printed on them:
SJ
Weight (10w30, 10w40, etc.)
"Conforms to Honda Requirements for Motorcycle Lubricants"
JASO T903:2006 MA
If JASO MA is important enough to make this very short list, it must be important to Honda, so I make sure my m/c oils have at least the JASO MA rating. You can call me overcautious, but it's not like I'm paying the "motorcycle tax" for crazy rare oil. Availability is good. If I'm feeling cheap and frequent oil changes are beating up my toy budget, Rotella T-4 and T-6 are always there for me. Shoot, compared to boutique oil, Motul 5200 at $52.20 / 4L is a bargain.
I like to point out that Honda's GN-4 oils have very little in the way of specs printed on them:
SJ
Weight (10w30, 10w40, etc.)
"Conforms to Honda Requirements for Motorcycle Lubricants"
JASO T903:2006 MA
If JASO MA is important enough to make this very short list, it must be important to Honda, so I make sure my m/c oils have at least the JASO MA rating. You can call me overcautious, but it's not like I'm paying the "motorcycle tax" for crazy rare oil. Availability is good. If I'm feeling cheap and frequent oil changes are beating up my toy budget, Rotella T-4 and T-6 are always there for me. Shoot, compared to boutique oil, Motul 5200 at $52.20 / 4L is a bargain.
Even synthetic oils vary widely in clutch grip, castrol super bike oil, nowadays called Power 1, was a strong synthetic clutch grip oil.
The Ma 2 rating is mostly Bs , I found that out trying to fix a long term slip issue with parts , swapped the Ma 2 oil out and no more issue.
you can also take 2 synthetic ma 2 oils , put a thin film between your fingers and rub them together, and see which oil film gets tacky first, that one will have the strongest clutch grip. Some will never tack up, just slick cht, those are the marginal clutch oils, and the oil might also have an ma 2 rating, which means Jack cht.
Absolutely does not matter if they have both an ma 2 rating or not, some ma 2 rated oils, are actually slippier on the clutch than no rated oils.
The Ma 2 rating is mostly Bs , I found that out trying to fix a long term slip issue with parts , swapped the Ma 2 oil out and no more issue.
you can also take 2 synthetic ma 2 oils , put a thin film between your fingers and rub them together, and see which oil film gets tacky first, that one will have the strongest clutch grip. Some will never tack up, just slick cht, those are the marginal clutch oils, and the oil might also have an ma 2 rating, which means Jack cht.
Absolutely does not matter if they have both an ma 2 rating or not, some ma 2 rated oils, are actually slippier on the clutch than no rated oils.
Sorry to quote myself, I meant Motul 7100, 100% synthetic, Group V IIRC.
Except the Z1…….
No. It´s Group III with Ester. See the german labeling. "Synthese technologie" and "Ester". That´s it. Not "Vollsynthetsich" = Fully Synthetic. German law is strict, Motul lost on court in Germany for wrong labeling.
It´s allways puzzeling me how Motul has convinced everybody outside of Germany that their oils are really fullysynthetik.
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Hmm. By the labeling of 100% synthetic, it better be mostly Group III+ with some group V Ester blended in. Otherwise they're not just misleading the NA market, they're lying.No. It´s Group III with Ester. See the german labeling. "Synthese technologie" and "Ester". That´s it. Not "Vollsynthetsich" = Fully Synthetic. German law is strict, Motul lost on court in Germany for wrong labeling.
It´s allways puzzeling me how Motul has convinced everybody outside of Germany that their oils are really fullysynthetik.
Infineum Insight - Driving Group III differentiation
Insight talks to a number of its industry contacts about some of the key trends and drivers shaping the rapidly changing global Group III base stocks market.
www.infineuminsight.com
OK, VI is 154 >120 so it is (at least) mostly Group III+
Here's the history of why "fully synthetic" is an allowed marketing term in the US for better Group III (we call on this board Group III+ as does infineum), blame Castrol, not Motul:
100% Synthetic Oil vs Full Synthetic Oil: What’s the Difference? - AMSOIL Blog
As long as a motor oil uses any combination of Group III, IV or V base oils, it can be labeled and marketed as a "synthetic" oil.
blog.amsoil.com
My one other data point, is that it smooths out the clunky shifting some, in my old Honda.
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- 4,117
All my late 70's to early 90's bikes ran synthetic oils.
Never had clutch slippage issues. If my clutch slipped, it was because I wore it out. Plenty of good aftermarket clutch kits available back then too. And, ran +10 to +20% clutch springs on various bikes, even with stock OE clutches since I preferred a more aggressive lock up.
I'd run any current spec synth motorcycle 40 grade, and tell the 40-year old shop to stick it with the obsolete foolish recommendations. They still fear the 'synthetic' word, as do automakers.
Never had clutch slippage issues. If my clutch slipped, it was because I wore it out. Plenty of good aftermarket clutch kits available back then too. And, ran +10 to +20% clutch springs on various bikes, even with stock OE clutches since I preferred a more aggressive lock up.
I'd run any current spec synth motorcycle 40 grade, and tell the 40-year old shop to stick it with the obsolete foolish recommendations. They still fear the 'synthetic' word, as do automakers.
O.K. i think that was a Misunderstanding, and my fault. Sorry.Hmm. By the labeling of 100% synthetic, it better be mostly Group III+ with some group V Ester blended in. Otherwise they're not just misleading the NA market, they're lying.
Infineum Insight - Driving Group III differentiation
Insight talks to a number of its industry contacts about some of the key trends and drivers shaping the rapidly changing global Group III base stocks market.
OK, VI is 154 >120 so it is (at least) mostly Group III+
Here's the history of why "fully synthetic" is an allowed marketing term in the US for better Group III (we call on this board Group III+ as does infineum), blame Castrol, not Motul:
100% Synthetic Oil vs Full Synthetic Oil: What’s the Difference? - AMSOIL Blog
As long as a motor oil uses any combination of Group III, IV or V base oils, it can be labeled and marketed as a "synthetic" oil.
My one other data point, is that it smooths out the clunky shifting some, in my old Honda.
In my Opinion, Fullsynth is only Group IV. If you say Group III is also Fullsynth, it´s O.K. too.
No apologies needed, i was wrong about the Group V thing... and I'm not happy with the USA definitions, either.O.K. i think that was a Misunderstanding, and my fault. Sorry.
In my Opinion, Fullsynth is only Group IV. If you say Group III is also Fullsynth, it´s O.K. too.
Another great Kawi , but absolutely not scarier than the H2 which was legendary scary (maybe a bit too legendary
)! I had a Gen 1 H2... a lot more power than frame, even with the steering damper it could be a handful.The Z-1, by contrast, was actually a decent handling bike by the standards of the day.And the Z-1 was not even as quick as the first generation H2. Per Kevin Cameron (in CycleWorld):
"The 1973 903 Z1 was big, it was smooth, and it accelerated like nothing else (well, maybe not quite–the company did a bit of “un-development” on their two-stroke H2 triple to make sure nobody got the wrong idea)."
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming
...
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