3/4 ton trucks...what options?

[deeter16317]

Well, I'm at a point where I'm needing to change trucks...not because of miles/wear, etc., but because its a standard cab. I've been a Dodge guy all my life, but this 3rd gen has been less than impressive...steering issues, vibrations, injectors, etc...I've dumped A LOT of money into this truck to make it reliable and durable (I have owned it since it had 141 miles on the clock). It's been a good truck since I've done the mods, but I need a bigger cab for family at this point.

I'm looking for a extended cab/crew cab, 4wd, 3/4 ton (HD, not a glorified 1/2 ton) or single rear wheel 1-ton with an automatic. I will be buying used, probably less than five years old, with low miles...I don't travel the way I once did (my 04.5 sits at 266k). I am hesitant to buy a used diesel, mainly because they are so easy to chip, abuse, unchip, and sell...and you as the buyer are potentially buying an abused truck without much indication. I am thinking that I will probably regret buying a gasser after owning a 5.9 Cummins for the past 15 years (current one is right about 450HP and a 6spd manual with 4.10s, so its got a lot of grunt), but the upcharge for any of the diesels, the price of fuel, and the fact we don't really tow that often...probably a moot point anyhow.

I like the body style of the GM and Dodge, but again; I really don't want to go down that road again with the Dodge. I liked the fact you could get a GM with an 8.1L and Allison, but it appears that combination isn't offered now, and I don't think a Hemi will tow what I have (a 10k GVW trailer and a 8500# 5vr) as my coworker has an 04 Dodge 2500 and it works to tow his camper that weights right around 7500#s. I really don't know much about the Fords...really don't like the latest body style, and I know absolutely nothing of their power train or how they hold up.

So for those of you that have them...how do the newer GM (Chevy/GMC) HDs hold up? What are the Ford offerings in the F250/350, and how do they hold up? What kind of gas mileage are you seeing (realistically)??

What would you chose, and why? Again, I'm not buying new; but it will probably be in the $30k range and less than 30k miles...which seems to be about right for a 2009-ish truck. I guess I need real world experience from others as the sites I frequent are pretty much diesel-only.

 

[440Magnum]

Diesels are a HUGE up-front investment these days and have become hugely over-complicated by emissions regulations. Particulate filters with their cleaning cycles that burn tons of excess fuel, urea-injection for NOx control (on Ford and GM), EGR (on Cummins), etc. So I understand the desire to go gasser. But you're right, towing with gassers can be marginal. And they're not even very common in 3/4 ton trucks anymore, and I'm not even sure you can buy a 1-ton gasser.

This is smaller than you're looking at, but its a data point: I've got an 08 Ram 1500 4.7 gasser and I *love* the thing as a pickup, and even as a road-trip vehicle with a cover on the bed. I've seen 22 mpg highway several times, and I routinely see 18-19, which is better than my 01 Cherokee that weighs a bit more than half what the Ram does! I also occasionally use it to tow a 5000 lb trailer and it does OK, but the engine is working hard. That's about all I'd put behind the 310-horse 4.7, but its mostly because it has to wind up to get that 310 HP rating. An old 5.9 rated at 230 horses would probably actually tow a little better except for all-out climbing. The newer VVT "Eagle" 5.7 Hemi brings the power in at a much lower RPM than the 4.7, and even though the rating is only 80 more HP than the 4.7 I think the effectiveness in towing is a much bigger margin. I think you'd be OK with a Hemi if you don't tow constantly. As far as reliability, I've had no transmission, steering, or suspension gripes with mine but its still pretty low mileage. Talking to others, I think they mostly got those licked even before the 2010 redesign. Given the improvements between 04 and 09, I think that if you've been generally positive on your 04, you'll probably be even happier with an 08/09. And a gasser will be lower maintenance cost and much lower up-front cost. A sorta left-handed benefit to the Dodges is that they have a depressed resale value (which I think is mostly undeserved) meaning you can get a nicer-condition Dodge for the same money as a Ford or Chevy/GMC.

ALL that said... Fords are darn nice, probably the best chassis of the 3, and the Modular is a solid engine. I just don't know how much real-world grunt they have like I do about the Dodges. I'm gonna kinda follow this thread and see what info pops up on the bigger Ford gassers.

 

[deeter16317]

See, the 1500 and 2500 are all but completely different animals...the 2500 being a solid axle design, and they have known steering issues (steering component and ball joint wear out, wander, etc.). I just dropped over $1500 in parts and labor (not much labor as I was doing some of the work) just to get it to feel somewhat normal...and that doesn't include the $300 steering box, $300 Borgeson shaft, or $200 steering brace. They still have pretty much the same design, with the same issues...and that's what is really making me cringe about buying another one, I don't want to go through all that again.

I was adding it up, it cost me nearly $6k in modifications just to get this truck reliable...and that doesn't even include auto transmission upgrades to make them survive! Its good to know the gassers can get reasonable mileage.

I know what you mean with upfront costs of the diesels...that upfront cost would buy a lot of gasoline. At the same time, wait until the price of diesel hits $5/gallon...their value will be half what they are now. I watched that happen with my own truck in 2008 when diesel hit $4/gallon...one day its valued over $10k, the next $5800...its actually got higher value right now (with over 100k more miles and four more years) than it did in 2008! And as you pointed out, I really don't want the emissions that the current run of diesels are saddled with as that seems to be a very expensive fix when (not if) it fails.

I know we will be test driving a lot before buying...I'm hoping I get some more real world results like yours so I know what I can expect.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: deeter16317
See, the 1500 and 2500 are all but completely different animals...the 2500 being a solid axle design, and they have known steering issues (steering component and ball joint wear out, wander, etc.).


I think that's more of a 4x4 vs. 2wd issue, isn't it? (were all 2500s 4x4 in the 08/09 era?) Also if you're talking 2010 and later, the 1500s have coil sprung REAR suspension and the 2500/3500 still have leafs.

But to your problems, yes the Dodge solid-axle front-end takes some getting used to... its a scaled up version of the very flexible leading-arm suspension system, designed by later exec vice president Francois Castaing, that came out first in the 1984 Cherokee and is under both of my Cherokees. I kinda know about its quirks... Its super-flexible and just about unbeatable for offroading, which is why its still in use in the Wranglers. But I'm sure you're familiar with the term "death wobble."

But overall, I don't think its any more problematic than Ford Twin "I" beam suspension used to be. The real trick (assuming the truck develops the problem, and not all do...) is to find a shop that really understands that suspension design and knows where to go looking for the play that is triggering the oscillation. Everyone focuses on the trackbar and that can cause it, but the control arm bushings, ball joints, draglink, and lots of other things can contribute or cause it also. We've got two local Jeep shops that also work on Dodge 4x4 pickups because the suspension is the same. Sounds like you finally got yours sorted out, but its a bummer that they didn't make them more reliable back in that early part of the Gen3 Ram era.

 

[GMBoy]

I think you will be able to find a nice truck no matter if you buy a Dodge, GM or Ford. They are all good trucks and each have their strong points and weak points. My experience is with GM vehicles obviously.

If you are looking for a gas 3/4 ton in a GM, I think you will be VERY pleased with the 6.0L engine. It has plenty of power to tow and is smooth all around. I tow an 8,000lb RV behind my 6.0 and it pulls it with authority. I can keep up with Diesels all day long at that weight. You don't need the 8.1L. Sure the thing is a beast, but the 6.0 will do your work with less fuel usage.

 

[MNgopher]

I agree with GMboy - all of the big three make capable 3/4 and one ton trucks. In the Fords, look for a V10 if you want a gasser. The 5.4 will be a dog in that platform, but the 6.8 V10 works very well. Its thirsty, but factor that against your proposed usage.

 

[morris]

not being a diesel expert i offer this. block heaters, mmo in the fuel, lots of batterys.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: morris
not being a diesel expert i offer this. block heaters, mmo in the fuel, lots of batterys.



I know more about diesels than I care...I've owned them since the 90s.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I agree with GMboy - all of the big three make capable 3/4 and one ton trucks. In the Fords, look for a V10 if you want a gasser. The 5.4 will be a dog in that platform, but the 6.8 V10 works very well. Its thirsty, but factor that against your proposed usage.



Any idea of mileage on the v10?

It sounds like I'm looking at either a 6.0L GM or a v10 Ford, I'd really need convinced to consider another Dodge after the issues I had with this one.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: deeter16317



Any idea of mileage on the v10?


In a 31' motorhome? About 8 mpg.

My dad actually did a lot of research on this one. When you factor in the higher initial cost of the diesel powered machine and the higher cost of the fuel and maintenance, even though the diesel will get 14mpg it still ends up costing more per mile.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[ffracer]

Two things to look at also:

1. What is the longevity of the automatic transmission? Depends on whether it is an HD transmission and general reliability data. In fleet vans/trucks in old company, these were the weakest component in the truck for all three makes, but none were HD grade like Allison.

2. Not sure what the salt level is in PA, but here in NY, Dodge trucks are rusting like crazy that are only 5 years old. Rear wheel wells and tailgates, plus under the front doors. Perforation like a 15 year car. Rest of the truck looks like new.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: ffracer
Two things to look at also:

1. What is the longevity of the automatic transmission? Depends on whether it is an HD transmission and general reliability data. In fleet vans/trucks in old company, these were the weakest component in the truck for all three makes, but none were HD grade like Allison.

2. Not sure what the salt level is in PA, but here in NY, Dodge trucks are rusting like crazy that are only 5 years old. Rear wheel wells and tailgates, plus under the front doors. Perforation like a 15 year car. Rest of the truck looks like new.



Understood, one of the biggest problems in the HD Dodge is the auto trans...another reason I am sort of shying away from them...

I have the rust issue handled...

 

[Nick R]

Would a Ford Ecoboost F-150 work? They are rated to tow over 10,000lb and would probably be cheaper than even a used HD truck.

 

[deeter16317]

Nah, I'm looking at true 3/4 tons; not a glorified 1/2 ton...that would be taking a step back in durability of components (lighter trans, lighter differentials, lighter tires, lower load carrying capacity, lighter springs, etc.)...

 

[yonyon]

Except for the Dodges I don't see all that many deisel pickups, mostly just gas pickups. It seems to me that the newest Fords got rid of their ball joint problems and even have steering now. Ride comfort has also improved a lot, being right up there with Dodge. GM hasn't really changed much at all, just the expected minor evolutionary changes. The brakes work reliably right out of the box now, though, which is good. If I had to pick one of the three for towing, I'd go GM. It's still a bit squishy feeling to drive, but it's a solid truck if you don't go slamming it around off-road which it really doesn't like at all. Dodge is still a pretty truck to look at but instead of just a flakey trans like in the past, now you get flaky front and rear axles too and as a bonus a front end that wears out as fast as the old Fords did. Still, it can probably torerate off road use better than a GM. If you want to buy a 3/4 ton pickup to treat like a car it should be a nice choice.

 

[mount]

The Ford Modulars are very solid engines. Transmissions have no problems to speak of either. Being straight up honest, my only complaint would be the coil over plug or COPDs. Yes, they are in fact more efficient and do save money as you never have to buy wires. If you're busting through drifts that are coming over the hood, it always manages to get a coil or two soaked and have a problem with one. I finally changed all plugs and coils myself last weekend and used plenty of dielectric grease as our mechanic must not have. Just make sure you or your mechanic knows how and where to use dielectric grease when changing the plugs and you won't have any issues. (I'm also a happy camper that you can get coil packs for about $8 a piece shipped from Global Automotive instead of paying $50 at a store)

Otherwise, thats about it. The modulars are pretty straightforward. (We also own the 4.6, which if you aren't familiar with, is just a shorter stroke, than the 5.4. Everything else is basically the same, hence "modular")

The last 50,000 miles on the F-150 have been nothing but the minimal routine maintainence. It burns not a drop of oil and not a drop of coolant to this day. My next pickup, when this ever dies, will be a Ford.


The 5.4 would manage to yank 10,000# around, but it might be frustrating for you the driver if you have to go a good distance or tow it everyday.

The the 6.8 V10 would probably be the best choice as far as gas pickups if you're coming from a diesel.

I dont't really know the exact numbers on the V10's fuel economy, but it's not any worse than a heavy duty Chevy with only a gasser. The mileage on those is a joke.

Yes, I'm a Ford guy, but I wouldn't see anything wrong with a Chevy either. Nothing really bad to say about them. Except they glue on their doors.

 

[mount]

I don't mean to impose, but I really like CarSoup.

2004 F-250 $20,000

2010 F-250 $33,000

 

[ridgerunner]

Bought this 2010 for 27,000 with 20k miles. I've seen 2011's for the same price with less miles recently. Quad cab has tons of room! U could even go for a mega cab is U don't want an 8ft bed.

 

[deeter16317]

And what are you guys with the GMs and Dodges seeing for average gas mileage? Mid teens? High teens? Single digits?

A coworker has an 04 2500 Hemi...he gets single digits towing (I think he said 8mpg) and low teems unloaded (I think he said 13mpg)? But that's also an older generation Hemi...

 

[cchase]

The gasser GM trucks get 12-14 mpg with no load.