2nd Kreen Cleaning -- 98 Camry V6 -- Results

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
So this argument is about your belief that you should be able to go to Walmart and pick up a bottle of oil additive that will clean up any neglected engine and get it back to new both in appearance and performance. This product should cost very little and be guaranteed to work. Just like a vacuum cleaner.

Perhaps what you are really describing is a genie in a bottle?

And you're telling us that after 10 years on a board which exists primarily so people can talk about optimizing their oil choice, that the world of fluids shouldn't be one where certain fluids are optimized or inherently better for specific purposes. There shouldn't be oils that are better than others at cleaning, some that are better than others at extended intervals, there shouldn't be synthetics that are GTL with inherently lower Noack or Grp V with Esters. Everything should perform the same, just like a vacuum cleaner.

Now I get where you're coming from.


You forget to mention one thing about vacuum cleaners.

They all suck.

 

[FoxS]

Lol

I did edit my post and mentioned something else at the end instead.

 

[demarpaint]

I'd like to see pictures of engines where a one dedicated engine cleaner was used, and not from a company website selling product. Switching from MMO to Kreen to A-Rx [pick the order] IMO proves nothing unfortunately. Also results from one engine are pretty much worthless too. I'd like to see cleaning results in cast iron engines as well as aluminum engines, maybe one product excels in one or both type engines. Data like that would be useful in making a decision for some people looking to clean up an engine made of aluminum vs. iron for the sake of argument. Maybe a certain family of engines cleans up easier than another engine family. Maybe GM engines clean up better than Chrysler engines. Maybe a certain product cleans sludge and is useless against varnish, or a combination of two products one used after another is the way to go. If that's the best way to get good results, or the only way to get good results who cares?


The good news is the tone of these discussions has mellowed and that's a good thing! Hopefully it can stay that way.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'd like to see pictures of engines where a one dedicated engine cleaner was used, and not from a company website selling product. Switching from MMO to Kreen to A-Rx [pick the order] IMO proves nothing unfortunately. Also results from one engine are pretty much worthless too. I'd like to see cleaning results in cast iron engines as well as aluminum engines, maybe one product excels in one or both type engines. Data like that would be useful in making a decision for some people looking to clean up an engine made of aluminum vs. iron for the sake of argument. Maybe a certain family of engines cleans up easier than another engine family. Maybe GM engines clean up better than Chrysler engines. Maybe a certain product cleans sludge and is useless against varnish, or a combination of two products one used after another is the way to go. If that's the best way to get good results, or the only way to get good results who cares?


The good news is the tone of these discussions has mellowed and that's a good thing! Hopefully it can stay that way.


Yep, and think outside the square when you use ANY product. There's more than one way to skin a cat!

 

[Mystic]

Some of my replies in this post disappeared but that is okay. I really do not care.

The bottom line is Artem's Auto-RX+ cleaning results will be coming out soon. Either the results will be negative or positive.

If they are negative that pretty much says everything that needs to be said.

If there are positive cleaning results others here at this website will try to duplicate the results on other dirty engines. If they are unable to do so that will be proof that the product does not work.

In the end the product either works or it does not work. Same with any other product.

 

[Mystic]

Anyway my method of cleaning will be to use Pennzoil Ultra motor oil. Or if I can't find the Pennzoil Ultra then Pennzoil Platinum or Mobil 1 High Mileage motor oil. Those motor oils may clean an engine just as good as anything else. All I have to do is change the motor oil.

And if cleaning seems to be taking place I might add some MMO the next oil change. MMO is cheap and readily available and I can also use it in the gasoline.

 

[Artem]

I'm going to give Pennzoil Ultra and MMO a shot to clean my engine. I'm sick of you all speaking so highly of the combination (or separately, whatever floats your boat) and I'm willing to give it a try to see what this miracle oil and MMO can do for me...

 

[Trajan]

You've tried everything but Simple Green and a brush, so hopefully this works.

 

[Mystic]

I don't know if Pennzoil Ultra can clean up a really dirty engine or not, but we sure seem to have some evidence that Mobil 1 oils and Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum can keep an engine clean if used from the time the vehicle is new. And MMO is at least a cheap and easy experiment. You maybe should ask demarpaint (he has been using MMO for almost 40 years) but I think you are supposed to replace 1 quart of oil with the MMO. So it would be 20% to 25% in the engine and the rest motor oil. Don't use over 25%.

 

[Artem]

Sounds about right, from what I've read on the back of the bottle. I'll consider it as the next cleaner to try before calling it quits and just going back to my usual 5k OCIs with olive oil of any flavor.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Some of my replies in this post disappeared but that is okay. I really do not care.

The bottom line is Artem's Auto-RX+ cleaning results will be coming out soon. Either the results will be negative or positive.

If they are negative that pretty much says everything that needs to be said.

If there are positive cleaning results others here at this website will try to duplicate the results on other dirty engines. If they are unable to do so that will be proof that the product does not work.

In the end the product either works or it does not work. Same with any other product.


One person who may or may not have an agenda, saying something does or doesn't work is enough for you? Not for me I want the law of averages on my side and need hundreds if not thousands of reports. Then, and only then would I believe I may make an informed decision. Time you started to think a tad more about your methodology.

 

[Mystic]

I don't have time or money enough to run tests of any cleaner in hundreds or thousands of vehicles. So there is my philosophy-the product either works or it does not work. So there is my methodology.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I don't have time or money enough to run tests of any cleaner in hundreds or thousands of vehicles. So there is my philosophy-the product either works or it does not work. So there is my methodology.


On the say so of somebody you don't know!
I owned a GM car once, I say it was a POS. that now means you'll never own a GM vehicle because I said it's [censored]?

 

[Mystic]

Probably the best scientific evidence we have that a product actually cleans is the Pennzoil engine sequence tests results. Do you know of any cleaner here that has engine sequence test results? I will take the Pennzoil engine sequence testing any day of the week.

Lots of people have generously supplied photographs of the interiors of engines kept clean by Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultra or Platinum motor oils also.

 

[Artem]

As I've said before, I'm sure these higher end oils will keep an already clean engine clean with reasonable OCIs, but cleaning a dirty engine is a whole other matter.

Pennzoil shows that their oils can keep an engine clean. They didn't show that their oils will literally clean a dirty engine. Or am I missing something?

Link please.

 

[sprintman]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Probably the best scientific evidence we have that a product actually cleans is the Pennzoil engine sequence tests results. Do you know of any cleaner here that has engine sequence test results? I will take the Pennzoil engine sequence testing any day of the week.

Lots of people have generously supplied photographs of the interiors of engines kept clean by Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultra or Platinum motor oils also.


You never respond to a simple hypothesis. I guess they are beyond your level of intellect

 

[demarpaint]

You can get an idea of what works and what doesn't work just from reading here. Take all the people posting positive results for a product vs. people who weren't satisfied with the same product. Then do some percentages. Just make sure that you're certain the people posting actually used the product. It could be a real eye opener.

 

[FoxS]

Mystic, I see you're sticking to your guns and feel an engine cleaner should just clean, period. No matter the engine, no matter the neglect. It should just clean.

For you it is the same argument as a vacuum cleaner.

Well, by coincidence, a thread about vacuum cleaners has just started on BITOG:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2961377&page=1

I wonder if the BITOG evaluation of a vacuum cleaner is going to be as simple as your notion of how to evaluate a vacuum cleaner.

I somehow suspect it won't be. There will be discussion of performance on hard floor vs carpet, whether they clean to the edge, whether the bag causes suction loss, what size dirt they pick up, how deep into pile they clean, how light they are, how many passes are required.

I don't think even for a vacuum cleaner, there pertinent question is whether it works or not.

So maybe after all, your point that cleaning additives are like vacuum cleaners was correct!

Some vacuum cleaners, like cleaning additives, are better at some things than others!

 

[Mystic]

I am not going to get into some silly argument with you FoxS. These various engine cleaning products are supposed to clean the insides of an engine. In order for them to work any problems that could affect the cleaning, such as a malfunctioning PCV valve or coolant leaking into the motor oil, would have to be fixed. After any such problems are corrected the cleaner should be able to clean.

That does not mean that the cleaner just cleans the rings and increases compression. What about the rest of the engine? That does not mean that the engine merely idles better but there is no apparent cleaning of sludge in the engine.

I expect some amount of successful cleaning of the entire engine for me to consider any cleaner to be effective-regardless if that cleaner is Auto-RX, MMO, Kreen or some other cleaner. If there is no apparent cleaning of the engine the only thing that a person can conclude is that the cleaner was not successful. Of course, a cleaner really should be tested in several vehicles. But I don't have a fleet of hundreds or thousands of vehicles handy at this time to run a test in such a fleet of vehicles. I also do not have the funding necessary to run test after test of Auto-RX+, MMO, or Kreen again and again in an engine. Do you?

The cleaner is supposed to clean. It is simple. I have already talked about potential problems in the engine that might prevent the cleaner from being successful. Yes, engines are different and varnish might be hard to remove from an aluminum engine and all of that. But the bottom line is the cleaner should be able to clean the engine, otherwise the cleaner is not getting the job done. We should notice at least some cleaning and if there is none the only thing reasonable people can do is conclude that the cleaner is not effective. Try to make things more complicated than that if you want. Try to find an excuse for your cleaner of choice not working. I am not going to make excuses for a cleaner not working.

 

[Mystic]

Well sprintman, you keep insulting people here at this website and you keep insulting Americans in general. You know, you said that Americans cannot think outside the box. You called demarpaint a wimp. And now you question my intelligence. I am not insulting you whatsoever. I am not calling you names. We will find out who gets banned from this website once moderators read these posts.