21 Subaru Ascent - M1 EP 0w20

[kschachn]

I would prefer to use M1 0w30 ESP now that it is readily available via AAP at a decent price no less. It is proven and has a substantial amount of high level approvals. I have used it and have been impressed with the results. Taking this into consideration I would not go out of my way to buy BG 0w30.

Yes one would be a fool to think that just because the grade designation is the same the oils achieve or are capable of achieving the same approval requirements.

If you’re going to do that you as well say they are equivalent due to the color or smell.

 

[charleshickman]

That engine destroys the KV100 of any oil it touches. And yes Subaru does approve of 0w30 usage in this engine per an email that I can refer to.

I'd appreciate it if you would share the email. Thanks.

 

[Al]

I thought the FA20/24 Turbo used 30 wt oil. My forester XT requires it. My crosstrek gets 30 wt. also.

 

[edyvw]

Use Castrol Edge 0W30. If out of warranty use Castrol Edge 0W40.

 

[Ignatius]

I'd appreciate it if you would share the email. Thanks.

Gen 6 - 2020-23 Outback Oil Change SUPERTHREAD!

www.subaruoutback.org

I thought the FA20/24 Turbo used 30 wt oil. My forester XT requires it. My crosstrek gets 30 wt. also.

FA24F uses 0w20 and always has per manufacturer recommendation.

 

[Al]

Gen 6 - 2020-23 Outback Oil Change SUPERTHREAD!

www.subaruoutback.org

FA24F uses 0w20 and always has per manufacturer recommendation.

I would not use 20 wt. Just me.

 

[bluesubie]

I would not use 20 wt. Just me.

C'mon @Al ! This is in!!

 

[tig1]

With an engine with only 10K on it I wouldn't recommend any changes except increase the OCI a few thou.

 

[TacoFergie]

Sorry guys, been a busy time of year....you get it. I went ahead and did an oil change a couple weeks ago since I had about 4500 miles on the M1 EP 0w20 and it was a nice day out. So the M1 AFE 0w30 is in. I also decided to try a Fram Ultra oil filter just because the dealer was closed, I normally just use a Subaru filter. Not that it will make much difference likely. I should be getting my UOA on the 0w20 back somewhat soon and I'll post it up when I get it.

@Ignatius thank you very much for that link!! I have read through much of that previously an somehow missed that! Also, I'm not really interested in trying to find the BG 0w30, I just thought it was odd. I've serviced many cars in couple shops using BG fluids and never knew they had engine oil.

@edyvw I would absolutely give Castrol 0w30 a try, but it's not on the shelves in my area and I prefer to buy oil off the shelf. I'm not a huge fan of ordering oil online. I don't know, I'm weird like that I guess. I'm only 36 so I'm not even an old guys that doesn't like using the interwebs. lol

For reference to the FA20DIT... I have tried reading up on that subject and I haven't found any solid info about similarities or differences between the two besides displacement(specifically bore +8mm, stroke stayed the same and pitons/rods were changed). One would assume they are almost identical internally besides the rotating assembly. But I have read that Subaru used it's experience from the FA20DIT and made improvements to the FA24DIT where it deemed necessary, but that's all I have read. Here is an interesting article I found a little while back focusing more on the NA FA24 in the upcoming 86/BRZ, but they touch on the Turbo FA24 also.

新型トヨタGR86／スバルBRZのエンジンは、「究極の自然吸気水平対向エンジン」を目指したスバル技術陣渾身の作だ

新型トヨタGR86／スバルBRZの搭載エンジンは、2.4ℓ水平対向4気筒である。ターボ過給なしの自然吸気エンジンが目指したのは低重心のパッケージマッチする高回転型ボクサーだ。「究極の自然吸気水平対向エンジン」の開発過程を訊いた。

motor-fan.jp

 

[edyvw]

It seems that Castrol 0W30 is in short supply. I am not big fan of that Mobil1 AFE. Not particularly strong pack.
I would go Mobil1 5W30 EP if you staying with ILSAC GF6.
Or Castrol 5W30 A3. They still carry that in Wal Mart.
Personally, if I owned it outside warranty, Castrol Edge 0W40.

 

[TacoFergie]

It seems that Castrol 0W30 is in short supply. I am not big fan of that Mobil1 AFE. Not particularly strong pack.
I would go Mobil1 5W30 EP if you staying with ILSAC GF6.
Or Castrol 5W30 A3. They still carry that in Wal Mart.
Personally, if I owned it outside warranty, Castrol Edge 0W40.

I agree with the notion about AFE isn’t the most impressive add pack out there. But it’s better than what most shops will put in.

I wished 0w30 offerings weren’t so hard to find. M1 ESP seems promising, better than AFE anyways. The Castrol 0w30 looks better than both..

I was doing some random looking around and saw someone talking about TMGO 0w20 synthetic. I was extremely surprised to see it’s specs. The VI is 227!!! Wished I would have seen this before trying 0w30 AFE. Not a big deal though, I can always try it on the next OCI.

PETROLEUM QUALITY INSTITUTE OF AMERICA TEST PROGRAM

The Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) is an independent resource for information and insights on the quality of lubricants in the marketplace. Our mission is to serve the consumer of lubricants by randomly sampling and independently testing lubricants taken from the field. Test...

pqiadata.org

 

[edyvw]

ESP 5W30 is Low-SAPS oil. It is impressive oil in its category. You also have ESP 0W30 in NAPA.
Those are European pils, so their HTHS will be above 3.5 and much better overall than anything ILSAC or that TGMO.
Any ACEA A3, C3 oil has HTHS 3.5 and above.
But, ESP might not fare well in that fuel dilution monster. I would definitely do UOA to see where TBN is.
You can also get in Wal Mart Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 that has impressive performance numbers. $22 for 5qt. Also Low SAPS (C3).

 

[4WD]

ESP 5W30 is Low-SAPS oil. It is impressive oil in its category. You also have ESP 0W30 in NAPA.
Those are European pils, so their HTHS will be above 3.5 and much better overall than anything ILSAC or that TGMO.
Any ACEA A3, C3 oil has HTHS 3.5 and above.
But, ESP might not fare well in that fuel dilution monster. I would definitely do UOA to see where TBN is.
You can also get in Wal Mart Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 that has impressive performance numbers. $22 for 5qt. Also Low SAPS (C3).

It’s $32/jug at my AZ … has to be coming from BMT for that price at an AZ …

 

[edyvw]

It’s $32/jug at my AZ … has to be coming from BMT for that price at an AZ …

AZ and AAP are always more expensive. I think here it is $37.

 

[4WD]

AZ and AAP are always more expensive. I think here it is $37.

I meant the ESP …

 

[edyvw]

I meant the ESP …

Ah. I think that is also $37, with filter. 0W30.
I saw it today as I was looking for Castrol 0W30.

 

[TacoFergie]

ESP 5W30 is Low-SAPS oil. It is impressive oil in its category. You also have ESP 0W30 in NAPA.
Those are European pils, so their HTHS will be above 3.5 and much better overall than anything ILSAC or that TGMO.
Any ACEA A3, C3 oil has HTHS 3.5 and above.
But, ESP might not fare well in that fuel dilution monster. I would definitely do UOA to see where TBN is.
You can also get in Wal Mart Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 that has impressive performance numbers. $22 for 5qt. Also Low SAPS (C3).

Thank you for the info! Unfortunately the only NAPA we had closed a couple years ago. Next closest is about 90 miles away. Kind of surprising that it closed since we have 3 Advanced Auto's, 3 O'Reilly's and 2 Autozone's among other smaller parts stores. Not that a population of 130k-ish is big, but certainly not a small town.

With Euro oils not having API SN/SN+ or ISLAC GF6A ratings, is there a cross ref between their ACEA ratings that are equivalents or any reason for concern? I know Euro requirements are generally more strict and I don't really have any real concerns, its more out of curiosity.

I really don't have any qualms with using a 5w30 for the most part. But in my area we can range anywhere from -20F to 100F and I prefer a 0wXX for cold starts and so I'm not changing oil for seasons. I know it's an irrational thought, just the way I am. haha To my knowledge 0wXX oils tend to be more shear resistant than 5wXX oils from my research. I could be completely wrong, I am all ears if I am.

I suppose if I don't find an oil that I am comfortable with going 5k on, I will likely just shorten the OCI to 4k or even 3k. We normally don't as much as we did last year, usually it's about 10k a yr. So shorter OCI's wouldn't be a deal breaker. It still surprises me how hard this engine is on an oil like M1 EP compared to others that have run that oil to 10k OCI's in other cars without the same amount of shearing.

 

[bluesubie]

But, ESP might not fare well in that fuel dilution monster. I would definitely do UOA to see where TBN is.

Based on uoa's on nasioc on ESP 5W-30 from some years ago, most owners limited their OCI's to 5k miles on that and other C3 oils.

With Euro oils not having API SN/SN+ or ISLAC GF6A ratings, is there a cross ref between their ACEA ratings that are equivalents or any reason for concern? I know Euro requirements are generally more strict and I don't really have any real concerns, its more out of curiosity.

For 30 grades, I believe all C3 oils have an HTHS of 3.5 or higher which is too high to meet ILSAC requirements.

Basically, run an ILSAC xW-30 for a used oil viscosity that will probably be at a 20 grade after some fuel dilution, or use a C3 xW-30 for a used oil viscosity that will probably remain at a 30 grade after some dilution.

 

[edyvw]

Thank you for the info! Unfortunately the only NAPA we had closed a couple years ago. Next closest is about 90 miles away. Kind of surprising that it closed since we have 3 Advanced Auto's, 3 O'Reilly's and 2 Autozone's among other smaller parts stores. Not that a population of 130k-ish is big, but certainly not a small town.

With Euro oils not having API SN/SN+ or ISLAC GF6A ratings, is there a cross ref between their ACEA ratings that are equivalents or any reason for concern? I know Euro requirements are generally more strict and I don't really have any real concerns, its more out of curiosity.

I really don't have any qualms with using a 5w30 for the most part. But in my area we can range anywhere from -20F to 100F and I prefer a 0wXX for cold starts and so I'm not changing oil for seasons. I know it's an irrational thought, just the way I am. haha To my knowledge 0wXX oils tend to be more shear resistant than 5wXX oils from my research. I could be completely wrong, I am all ears if I am.

I suppose if I don't find an oil that I am comfortable with going 5k on, I will likely just shorten the OCI to 4k or even 3k. We normally don't as much as we did last year, usually it's about 10k a yr. So shorter OCI's wouldn't be a deal breaker. It still surprises me how hard this engine is on an oil like M1 EP compared to others that have run that oil to 10k OCI's in other cars without the same amount of shearing.

ILSAC are basically energy-conserving oils. Euro stuff is too heavy for that.
As for API, Europeans do not worry too much about API. It is not stringent enough to be bothered by that.
These are more stout oils, a lot more shear stable. Basically, for any oil that has MB229.5 or in Low-SAPS category MB229.51 or MB229.52 approval, you are looking at the state of the art oils. You really cannot go wrong there especially in a turbo engine.
I understand the worry about the cold. As I mentioned before AAP and AZ carry M1 ESP 0W30. It is really tough stuff.

 

[Revving2Redline]

That engine destroys the KV100 of any oil it touches. And yes Subaru does approve of 0w30 usage in this engine per an email that I can refer to.

Sounds like a 0w30 would be a great alternative from M1 or Amsoil.