2020 Toyota Tundra 1794 Edition CrewMax Review
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We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers. Better reliability than a Tundra is impossible in a Silverado.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
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Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
To be fair, the running gear is ancient. Neither the engine or transmission have really changed since 2007. GM's 5.3 is old, but their transmissions are not.
Now, when this Tundra was launched way back in 2007, it's MPGs were not only good, but I believe even class leading. Horsepower was at or near the top, too. GM at that time was still using their 4 speed autos, and even their big 6.0 V8 couldn't match the Tundra's power. 13 years ago, this Tundra was a shot across the bow, a proper big American style truck with huge power and decent mileage.
13 years is a long time, though, and everyone else has caught up to the Tundra, then surpassed it.
That said, Toyota kept selling them, so I guess it hasn't worked out too badly for them. It's strange living in a world now where people would consider a 381hp vehicle slow.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
To be fair, the running gear is ancient. Neither the engine or transmission have really changed since 2007. GM's 5.3 is old, but their transmissions are not.
Now, when this Tundra was launched way back in 2007, it's MPGs were not only good, but I believe even class leading. Horsepower was at or near the top, too. GM at that time was still using their 4 speed autos, and even their big 6.0 V8 couldn't match the Tundra's power. 13 years ago, this Tundra was a shot across the bow, a proper big American style truck with huge power and decent mileage.
13 years is a long time, though, and everyone else has caught up to the Tundra, then surpassed it.
That said, Toyota kept selling them, so I guess it hasn't worked out too badly for them. It's strange living in a world now where people would consider a 381hp vehicle slow.
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
Toyota can do no evil. That was merely a supplier issue!
Still looking for proof of the "far worse" reliability of the Silverado.
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
Toyota can do no evil. That was merely a supplier issue!
Still looking for proof of the "far worse" reliability of the Silverado.
Opinion=Reliability this is a owner provided opinion.
Popularity there is small cult of truck buyers who consider the Tundra. The Colorado outsells it. But Toyota just produces just enough to meet demand thus the resale value. Even with the substantially smaller and tightly controlled inventory the resale value is not substantially higher. A decent negotiator could easily make up the small percentage difference.
Fast. No it is slow.
Popularity there is small cult of truck buyers who consider the Tundra. The Colorado outsells it. But Toyota just produces just enough to meet demand thus the resale value. Even with the substantially smaller and tightly controlled inventory the resale value is not substantially higher. A decent negotiator could easily make up the small percentage difference.
Fast. No it is slow.
There is one point that separates the Silverado from the Tundra in reliability. So saying the Tundra is "far better" is a bit of a stretch-
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks
But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks
But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
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Originally Posted by Slick17601
Best interior in a half ton? Only if you take GMC and Ram off the list.
I had that same thought.. You sit in a Laramie Longhorn Ram and you won't think that's the best interior in a 1/2 ton.. I'm not saying its not a very nice truck, it is. and no doubt the toyota v8 is one of the most reliable engines you can get, but it certainly isn't the only viable option in the 1/2 ton world. I think it is the one the OP should buy if he wants a truck since he's in love. haha
Best interior in a half ton? Only if you take GMC and Ram off the list.
I had that same thought.. You sit in a Laramie Longhorn Ram and you won't think that's the best interior in a 1/2 ton.. I'm not saying its not a very nice truck, it is. and no doubt the toyota v8 is one of the most reliable engines you can get, but it certainly isn't the only viable option in the 1/2 ton world. I think it is the one the OP should buy if he wants a truck since he's in love. haha
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
Haha you guys still bring that up and I love it when you do because NASA and NHTSA both investigated that and came to the same conclusion as Toyota.
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
Haha you guys still bring that up and I love it when you do because NASA and NHTSA both investigated that and came to the same conclusion as Toyota.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
Toyota can do no evil. That was merely a supplier issue!
Still looking for proof of the "far worse" reliability of the Silverado.
See, the funny thing is the NHTSA combed all those cars over time and time again, and found absolutely nothing wrong with them. Furthermore, it is actually impossible for it to happen, as there is no car made or sold anywhere in the western world (at least) without brakes capable of stopping and holding a car at full throttle. That's not even to mention the ability to shift into neutral or simply shut the car off.
The "unintended acceleration" was simply a ID-10-T error spurred by a litigious society. No one wants to admit that they, or their loved one, hit the throttle instead of the brakes.
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
We get it CKN, your Silverado gets better mileage but has far worse reliability. If I were worried about mileage, I'd buy a Prius and not a full sized truck. GM can't even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering their customers.
There is simply no way to defend the Tundra's mpg. That is 5.7 liters of baby seal clubbing environmental friendliness - but it's still awesome!
Powersurge
You shouldn't throw stones-every auto maker has skeletons in their closets.....
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyo...nintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214
Toyota can do no evil. That was merely a supplier issue!
Still looking for proof of the "far worse" reliability of the Silverado.
See, the funny thing is the NHTSA combed all those cars over time and time again, and found absolutely nothing wrong with them. Furthermore, it is actually impossible for it to happen, as there is no car made or sold anywhere in the western world (at least) without brakes capable of stopping and holding a car at full throttle. That's not even to mention the ability to shift into neutral or simply shut the car off.
The "unintended acceleration" was simply a ID-10-T error spurred by a litigious society. No one wants to admit that they, or their loved one, hit the throttle instead of the brakes.
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Originally Posted by CKN
There is one point that separates the Silverado from the Tundra in reliability. So saying the Tundra is "far better" is a bit of a stretch-
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
JD Power is a marketing company. Look it up. They are paid by whoever wants a survey produced to make their brand look better in commercials. The only reliable data is from CR from actual owners. GM (and many other manufacturers) are not going to EVER share their internal reliability/warranty repair data. Here's a prime example to GM's lies and being called out on it:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...challenges-ford-toyota-honda/2585826002/
The "one" manufacturer in the article that told GM to stop with their lies was Toyota.
There is one point that separates the Silverado from the Tundra in reliability. So saying the Tundra is "far better" is a bit of a stretch-
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
JD Power is a marketing company. Look it up. They are paid by whoever wants a survey produced to make their brand look better in commercials. The only reliable data is from CR from actual owners. GM (and many other manufacturers) are not going to EVER share their internal reliability/warranty repair data. Here's a prime example to GM's lies and being called out on it:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...challenges-ford-toyota-honda/2585826002/
The "one" manufacturer in the article that told GM to stop with their lies was Toyota.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by CKN
There is one point that separates the Silverado from the Tundra in reliability. So saying the Tundra is "far better" is a bit of a stretch-
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks
But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
JD Power is a marketing company. They are paid by whoever wants a survey produced to make their brand ook better. The only reliable data is from CR from actual owners. GM (and many other manufacturers) are not going to EVER share their internal reliability/warrant repair data.
That's true, and also JD Power does not apply any weighting to their results, meaning they give complaints about confusing infotainment the same weight as catastrophic engine failures. Their numbers are complete and total BS.
Originally Posted by CKN
There is one point that separates the Silverado from the Tundra in reliability. So saying the Tundra is "far better" is a bit of a stretch-
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks
But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
JD Power is a marketing company. They are paid by whoever wants a survey produced to make their brand ook better. The only reliable data is from CR from actual owners. GM (and many other manufacturers) are not going to EVER share their internal reliability/warrant repair data.
That's true, and also JD Power does not apply any weighting to their results, meaning they give complaints about confusing infotainment the same weight as catastrophic engine failures. Their numbers are complete and total BS.
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by CKN
There is one point that separates the Silverado from the Tundra in reliability. So saying the Tundra is "far better" is a bit of a stretch-
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks
But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
JD Power is a marketing company. They are paid by whoever wants a survey produced to make their brand ook better. The only reliable data is from CR from actual owners. GM (and many other manufacturers) are not going to EVER share their internal reliability/warrant repair data.
That's true, and also JD Power does not apply any weighting to their results, meaning they give complaints about confusing infotainment the same weight as catastrophic engine failures. Their numbers are complete and total BS.
Good point. I had forgotten about that.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by CKN
There is one point that separates the Silverado from the Tundra in reliability. So saying the Tundra is "far better" is a bit of a stretch-
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/rating...cle-dependability-most-dependable-trucks
But let's not have facts get in the way of emotions......
JD Power is a marketing company. They are paid by whoever wants a survey produced to make their brand ook better. The only reliable data is from CR from actual owners. GM (and many other manufacturers) are not going to EVER share their internal reliability/warrant repair data.
That's true, and also JD Power does not apply any weighting to their results, meaning they give complaints about confusing infotainment the same weight as catastrophic engine failures. Their numbers are complete and total BS.
Good point. I had forgotten about that.
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Haha you guys still bring that up and I love it when you do because NASA and NHTSA both investigated that and came to the same conclusion as Toyota.
If you actually would have read the study, they found no electronic defects. They mention multiple times the 2 physical problems, sticking accelerators and floor mats.
"NASA engineers found no electronic flaws in Toyota vehicles capable of producing the large throttle openings required to create dangerous high-speed unintended acceleration incidents. The two mechanical safety defects identified by NHTSA more than a year ago - "sticking" accelerator pedals and a design flaw that enabled accelerator pedals to become trapped by floor mats - remain the only known causes for these kinds of unsafe unintended acceleration incidents."
Emphasis mine.
https://one.nhtsa.gov/About-NHTSA/Press-Releases/2011/U.S.-Department-of-Transportation-Releases-Results-from-NHTSA-NASA-Study-of-Unintended-Acceleration-in-Toyota-Vehicles
Haha you guys still bring that up and I love it when you do because NASA and NHTSA both investigated that and came to the same conclusion as Toyota.
If you actually would have read the study, they found no electronic defects. They mention multiple times the 2 physical problems, sticking accelerators and floor mats.
"NASA engineers found no electronic flaws in Toyota vehicles capable of producing the large throttle openings required to create dangerous high-speed unintended acceleration incidents. The two mechanical safety defects identified by NHTSA more than a year ago - "sticking" accelerator pedals and a design flaw that enabled accelerator pedals to become trapped by floor mats - remain the only known causes for these kinds of unsafe unintended acceleration incidents."
Emphasis mine.
https://one.nhtsa.gov/About-NHTSA/Press-Releases/2011/U.S.-Department-of-Transportation-Releases-Results-from-NHTSA-NASA-Study-of-Unintended-Acceleration-in-Toyota-Vehicles
Originally Posted by dareo
The Tundra is the most conservative half ton play. You know exactly what it costs to buy and fuel it and you can expect trouble free use for a very long time. Its nothing that interests me but its a solid choice.
Thing is, A LOT of people want a vehicle that they can just put gas and oil in and drive, without ever having to worry about it. Things like driving dynamics and 0-60 times don't even register for them.
It's why Toyotas sell so well in the first place. I mean, the 4Runner is pretty much in the same boat as the Tundra, and Toyota sells so many 4Runners they have trouble keeping them on lots, and does so at a high price to boot. They're ancient and outclassed in a lot of ways, but people don't care when they get the job done and never break.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Haha you guys still bring that up and I love it when you do because NASA and NHTSA both investigated that and came to the same conclusion as Toyota.
If you actually would have read the study, they found no electronic defects. They mention multiple times the 2 physical problems, sticking accelerators and floor mats.
"NASA engineers found no electronic flaws in Toyota vehicles capable of producing the large throttle openings required to create dangerous high-speed unintended acceleration incidents. The two mechanical safety defects identified by NHTSA more than a year ago - "sticking" accelerator pedals and a design flaw that enabled accelerator pedals to become trapped by floor mats - remain the only known causes for these kinds of unsafe unintended acceleration incidents."
Emphasis mine.
https://one.nhtsa.gov/About-NHTSA/Press-Releases/2011/U.S.-Department-of-Transportation-Releases-Results-from-NHTSA-NASA-Study-of-Unintended-Acceleration-in-Toyota-Vehicles
This doesn't change the fact that the vehicle is still totally incapable of overpowering it's own brakes, can still be put into neutral and can still be switched off. I had the pedal get stuck under a floor mat in my old Subaru years ago and I figured out what was going on, pulled over in neutral and moved the mat.
The Tundra is the most conservative half ton play. You know exactly what it costs to buy and fuel it and you can expect trouble free use for a very long time. Its nothing that interests me but its a solid choice.
Thing is, A LOT of people want a vehicle that they can just put gas and oil in and drive, without ever having to worry about it. Things like driving dynamics and 0-60 times don't even register for them.
It's why Toyotas sell so well in the first place. I mean, the 4Runner is pretty much in the same boat as the Tundra, and Toyota sells so many 4Runners they have trouble keeping them on lots, and does so at a high price to boot. They're ancient and outclassed in a lot of ways, but people don't care when they get the job done and never break.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Haha you guys still bring that up and I love it when you do because NASA and NHTSA both investigated that and came to the same conclusion as Toyota.
If you actually would have read the study, they found no electronic defects. They mention multiple times the 2 physical problems, sticking accelerators and floor mats.
"NASA engineers found no electronic flaws in Toyota vehicles capable of producing the large throttle openings required to create dangerous high-speed unintended acceleration incidents. The two mechanical safety defects identified by NHTSA more than a year ago - "sticking" accelerator pedals and a design flaw that enabled accelerator pedals to become trapped by floor mats - remain the only known causes for these kinds of unsafe unintended acceleration incidents."
Emphasis mine.
https://one.nhtsa.gov/About-NHTSA/Press-Releases/2011/U.S.-Department-of-Transportation-Releases-Results-from-NHTSA-NASA-Study-of-Unintended-Acceleration-in-Toyota-Vehicles
This doesn't change the fact that the vehicle is still totally incapable of overpowering it's own brakes, can still be put into neutral and can still be switched off. I had the pedal get stuck under a floor mat in my old Subaru years ago and I figured out what was going on, pulled over in neutral and moved the mat.
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The study examines 233 problems, which are organized into nine categories:
Climate
Driving Assistance
Driving Experience
Exterior
Features/Controls/Displays (FCD)
Infotainment
Interior
Powertrain
Seats
Entering its 34th year, IQS has undergone major enhancements, including:
Problems caused by brought in technology and services
Problems caused by the interaction of the vehicle and the environment
Problems caused by advanced driver assistance systems
https://www.jdpower.com/business/automotive/us-initial-quality-study-iqs
Climate
Driving Assistance
Driving Experience
Exterior
Features/Controls/Displays (FCD)
Infotainment
Interior
Powertrain
Seats
Entering its 34th year, IQS has undergone major enhancements, including:
Problems caused by brought in technology and services
Problems caused by the interaction of the vehicle and the environment
Problems caused by advanced driver assistance systems
https://www.jdpower.com/business/automotive/us-initial-quality-study-iqs
