2018 Audi Q7

[Vermess]

I can confirm that 42hrs on B7 S4 is quoted by the guy who is definitely a specialist and a person who never, absolutely never, would recommend some unnecessary work.
When it comes to B7 S4, that quote usually comes after: I told you not to get that junk. And he is Audi guy and has driven strictly Audi's since 1972.

I am the first who is going o say there are a lot of mechanics that have no clue about any vehicles, but this one is not that. Of course, someone might do it faster, but that is not necessarily good.

If this deal that I'm working on goes through on this 05 avant s4, I'll shoot to beat that "42 hr" time.

05, 81k miles. Silver, black leather interior. AZ car, all it needs is timing chains and the steering wheel that looks like it was a poodles favorite toy.

One shop quoted him over 7k. He's not sure he wants to pay that. He might, he loves the car. I'll pick it up for the price of a good set of tires.

 

[Trav]

To be quite honest, I'm tired of members on this board, especially respected members with lots of posts listing approvals as a holy grail, getting add-a-boy points and likes from other members.....then in other threads doing a 180* and recommending a oil with NO APPROVALS just because that oil is the new darling of the site and a site sponsor. Then the same people flock to that thread with add-a-boy points and praises.

Either you have a standard of which all oils to be judged by, or you don't.

No need to get your panties in a twist, you asked, I gave my opinion, thats it.

 

[OVERKILL]

To be quite honest, I'm tired of members on this board, especially respected members with lots of posts listing approvals as a holy grail, getting add-a-boy points and likes from other members.....then in other threads doing a 180* and recommending a oil with NO APPROVALS just because that oil is the new darling of the site and a site sponsor. Then the same people flock to that thread with add-a-boy points and praises.

Either you have a standard of which all oils to be judged by, or you don't.

I assume you are alluding to myself, a few others and @High Performance Lubricants.

It's actually quite simple and I've explained this before, but perhaps you missed that post?

Approvals are foundational. That is, they establish the minimum level of performance for a given product. The Euro approvals are, generally, more stringent than the API and non-Euro manufacturers, so they make a good baseline.

So, if you want a guaranteed level of performance that goes above and beyond the basic API stuff, it's a good idea to start with a slate of Euro approvals. I personally prefer the Full-SAPS ones, LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40...etc, these are typically all based on A3/B4 with further refinements.

Now, my use of HPL's products has nothing to do with them being a site sponsor but rather with how and who, develops their products, I'd like to get that out of the way first and foremost. Yes, I appreciate Dave's candor and transparency with the board, but that wasn't the reason I chose to make the leap.

If a company buys an approved additive package from say Infineum (or Lubrizol, Oronite...etc) that meets 229.3/229.5, A40, VW 502 00/505 00, uses it with a premium slate of base oils, and then has one of the foremost experts on lubrication and tribology tweak that additive package, improving its performance, for me, personally, even though the product is not formally approved, it was developed using an additive package that is, and the person making the tweaks, his expertise is recognized broadly by everyone in the industry, so I'm comfortable with it not showing up on the BEVO list because I KNOW that it was capable of being there if submitted, as Dr. Rudnick's modifications aren't going to make it perform worse.

There's a gaping chasm between that approach, and something developed "on the cheap" that's "recommended for" Euro applications but only has API SN for example and a Noack that precludes it from being 229.5 regardless of those "recommendations".

Now, perhaps you, personally, aren't comfortable with that chain of logic as I've constructed it, and that's perfectly fine, but this isn't something that has appeared from a vacuum or out of blind faith in a company because they support this forum. It's a very methodical approach being taken here with no risk, because the foundational components ARE officially approved, and then massaged/fortified to improve performance further beyond where it is economical for traditional vendors by somebody whose expertise is indisputable.

 

[Vermess]

No need to get your panties in a twist, you asked, I gave my opinion, thats it.

Nothing I said was not true. Have a standard or don't.

 

[Vermess]

I assume you are alluding to myself, a few others and @High Performance Lubricants.

It's actually quite simple and I've explained this before, but perhaps you missed that post?

Approvals are foundational. That is, they establish the minimum level of performance for a given product. The Euro approvals are, generally, more stringent than the API and non-Euro manufacturers, so they make a good baseline.

So, if you want a guaranteed level of performance that goes above and beyond the basic API stuff, it's a good idea to start with a slate of Euro approvals. I personally prefer the Full-SAPS ones, LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40...etc, these are typically all based on A3/B4 with further refinements.

Now, my use of HPL's products has nothing to do with them being a site sponsor but rather with how and who, develops their products, I'd like to get that out of the way first and foremost. Yes, I appreciate Dave's candor and transparency with the board, but that wasn't the reason I chose to make the leap.

If a company buys an approved additive package from say Infineum (or Lubrizol, Oronite...etc) that meets 229.3/229.5, A40, VW 502 00/505 00, uses it with a premium slate of base oils, and then has one of the foremost experts on lubrication and tribology tweak that additive package, improving its performance, for me, personally, even though the product is not formally approved, it was developed using an additive package that is, and the person making the tweaks, his expertise is recognized broadly by everyone in the industry, so I'm comfortable with it not showing up on the BEVO list because I KNOW that it was capable of being there if submitted, as Dr. Rudnick's modifications aren't going to make it perform worse.

There's a gaping chasm between that approach, and something developed "on the cheap" that's "recommended for" Euro applications but only has API SN for example and a Noack that precludes it from being 229.5 regardless of those "recommendations".

Now, perhaps you, personally, aren't comfortable with that chain of logic as I've constructed it, and that's perfectly fine, but this isn't something that has appeared from a vacuum or out of blind faith in a company because they support this forum. It's a very methodical approach being taken here with no risk, because the foundational components ARE officially approved, and then massaged/fortified to improve performance further beyond where it is economical for traditional vendors by somebody whose expertise is indisputable.

I wouldn't go assuming anything, brother. Just pointing out some hypocrisy. Either have a standard, or don't. Don't flip flop on threads recommendating based on approvals preaching as gospel, then 10 seconds later recommending something else. That's what I'm pointing out.

And no, not singling you or the aforementioned company out. Just a blanket observation of a few members' recommendations of certain companies that have no approvals.

Mind you, I've never been one to follow approvals, only one I stick with is the Porsche approvals. Approvals are met by many on the minimum scale. It served me quite well as many of the vehicles in my fleet have over 200k on them and run like new and are well used. Two of my vehicles are driven quite regularly on the Kanc and have shown many high end cars tail lights during "friendly driving contests" .

I ask a bunch of questions about oil. That does not mean I am uneducated about the subject, but no expert by any means.

As far as the aforementioned company, I've had a bunch of friends use them in track cars as well as daily drivers long before they became a darling and a site sponsor. Would I use them over an approved oil??? In a heart beat. My s4 and wifes mini s will get HPL on their next change. So don't go thinking it was an attack on them. It sure as hell wasn't.

Take that as you will, you know I'm factually correct on everything.

Have a standard or don't.

 

[edyvw]

If this deal that I'm working on goes through on this 05 avant s4, I'll shoot to beat that "42 hr" time.

05, 81k miles. Silver, black leather interior. AZ car, all it needs is timing chains and the steering wheel that looks like it was a poodles favorite toy.

One shop quoted him over 7k. He's not sure he wants to pay that. He might, he loves the car. I'll pick it up for the price of a good set of tires.

It is not about time. It is about quality of work, and no you will not be able to beat that. You can do it in 20hrs. Anything can be done fast.

 

[Sam_Julier]

To be quite honest, I'm tired of members on this board, especially respected members with lots of posts listing approvals as a holy grail, getting add-a-boy points and likes from other members.....then in other threads doing a 180* and recommending a oil with NO APPROVALS just because that oil is the new darling of the site and a site sponsor. Then the same people flock to that thread with add-a-boy points and praises.

Either you have a standard of which all oils to be judged by, or you don'

Obviously you’re referring to HPL.

After lots of dialog on this site and personal conversations with Dave I’m comfortable with their approach. I’m confident their oils will serve my cars well. An approval on their oil would not change my confidence one bit.

I’ve learned an enormous amount from Trav, Clinebarger, Mola, Overkill, TomNJ, Astro14 and many others. You seem like a smart person. I hope you will make many contributions as they have.

Cheers,

Sam

 

[Vermess]

Obviously you’re referring to HPL.

After lots of dialog on this site and personal conversations with Dave I’m comfortable with their approach. I’m confident their oils will serve my cars well. An approval on their oil would not change my confidence one bit.

I’ve learned an enormous amount from Trav, Clinebarger, Mola, Overkill, TomNJ, Astro14 and many others. You seem like a smart person. I hope you will make many contributions as they have.

Cheers,

Sam

Obviously you have not read my replies as well as praises to the aforementioned company. Good job shilling.

Why is everyone pointing to them and taking it so hard??? I am glad you trust them, you have no reason not to. My friends trust them. Yes, my friends compete in motorsports. They trust them for that aspect as well in the DDs. I have no reason to doubt my friends who range from motor sports to engine builders, to mechanics.

You do realize more than one product that has no approvals and members recommend them day in and day out, right???

Members over here being white knights defending their buddies over a blanket statement. It's not personal bud, no names were mentioned to keep personal stuff out of it.

Did I hit a nerve pointing out hypocrisy???

Not personal, just asking. As far as the aforementioned company and members thinking I have something against them, watch this......

 

[Vermess]

@johndw28

If you want to take care of that ride and want the top tier oil, hit up HPL.

 

[Vermess]

It is not about time. It is about quality of work, and no you will not be able to beat that. You can do it in 20hrs. Anything can be done fast.

No doubt about quality. You should see the stuff I got to deal with on Audi, Mini, and especially Subaru.

Just got done scraping 3 colors off a cylinder head. Blue, gray, black.

Yes, quality had to be top notch, especially at the cost of parts these days. However, some shops overcharge like a bear due to the mark of car they're working on.

 

[Sam_Julier]

Obviously you have not read my replies as well as praises to the aforementioned company. Good job shilling.

Why is everyone pointing to them and taking it so hard??? I am glad you trust them, you have no reason not to. My friends trust them. Yes, my friends compete in motorsports. They trust them for that aspect as well in the DDs. I have no reason to doubt my friends who range from motor sports to engine builders, to mechanics.

You do realize more than one product that has no approvals and members recommend them day in and day out, right???

Members over here being white knights defending their buddies over a blanket statement. It's not personal bud, no names were mentioned to keep personal stuff out of it.

Did I hit a nerve pointing out hypocrisy???

Not personal, just asking. As far as the aforementioned company and members thinking I have something against them, watch this......

Not shilling anyone or HPL. I don’t run HPL’s product. Nor do I run Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil and others.

What’s the point of your attitude?

 

[The Critic]

Not shilling anyone or HPL. I don’t run HPL’s product. Nor do I run Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil and others.

What’s the point of your attitude?

Well, to be fair, it’s natural to be suspicious of anyone who plays defense for a product.

 

[edyvw]

No doubt about quality. You should see the stuff I got to deal with on Audi, Mini, and especially Subaru.

Just got done scraping 3 colors off a cylinder head. Blue, gray, black.

Yes, quality had to be top notch, especially at the cost of parts these days. However, some shops overcharge like a bear due to the mark of car they're working on.

I agree. However, not the case here.

 

[Sam_Julier]

Well, to be fair, it’s natural to be suspicious of anyone who plays defense for a product.

I’m not playing defense for HPL.

I said I was confident in their approach, their product and using it in my cars.

 

[Vermess]

I agree. However, not the case here.

I agree. However, not the case here.

If I'm lucky enough to land this deal, maybe I'll find out. From what I can remember going 10 or so years back, I had the engine, Transmission, sub frame out in 5 or so hours.

Then again, that ONE bolt or nut can make me eat humble pie.

 

[Vermess]

Not shilling anyone or HPL. I don’t run HPL’s product. Nor do I run Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil and others.

What’s the point of your attitude?

What in the world??? I do not have an attitude, merely asking a question and everyone assumes the name of a company. You, yourself did it with your comments. I'm finna buy some for 2 oil changes.

You just mentioned a few other products I could have been referring to but almost everyone, including you, assumes I was talking about one specific one and going on and defending their choice and the company.

New users read this stuff. They study the forum and notice how one member preaches specs then 10 minutes later preaches something else. I was merely asking why and later on pointing out the hypocrisy. I did not point out a company, just read my posts.

My point is, the hypocrisy is one of the biggest detractors of new members. It makes new members question the legitimacy of respected members on here as well as the entire site, which I hold in regard as one of the best sites for info like this.

As I said, either have a standard or don't.

 

[OVERKILL]

I wouldn't go assuming anything, brother. Just pointing out some hypocrisy. Either have a standard, or don't. Don't flip flop on threads recommendating based on approvals preaching as gospel, then 10 seconds later recommending something else. That's what I'm pointing out.

And no, not singling you or the aforementioned company out. Just a blanket observation of a few members' recommendations of certain companies that have no approvals.

OK, but surely you can appreciate the difference between an oil that "has no approvals" and is just "recommended for" and one that uses an approved additive package in a base oil blend that's well beyond the formulation/approval requirements, so it COULD be approved.

 

[OVERKILL]

You just mentioned a few other products I could have been referring to

Well, you did say site sponsor:

recommending a oil with NO APPROVALS just because that oil is the new darling of the site and a site sponsor.

Which narrows the field considerably, as only Shell and HPL are site sponsors, unless we are including AMSOIL because of Pablo's sponsorship as a dealer, but AMSOIL, formally, does not sponsor this forum.

 

[Sam_Julier]

What in the world??? I do not have an attitude, merely asking a question and everyone assumes the name of a company. You, yourself did it with your comments. I'm finna buy some for 2 oil changes.

You just mentioned a few other products I could have been referring to but almost everyone, including you, assumes I was talking about one specific one and going on and defending their choice and the company.

New users read this stuff. They study the forum and notice how one member preaches specs then 10 minutes later preaches something else. I was merely asking why and later on pointing out the hypocrisy. I did not point out a company, just read my posts.

My point is, the hypocrisy is one of the biggest detractors of new members. It makes new members question the legitimacy of respected members on here as well as the entire site, which I hold in regard as one of the best sites for info like this.

As I said, either have a standard or don't.

“My point is, the hypocrisy is one of the biggest detractors of new members. It makes new members question the legitimacy of respected members on here as well as the entire site, which I hold in regard as one of the best sites for info like this.”

Are you running a polling organization? Are you chatting with new members who left because respected members are hypocrites?

You may be the top tech and tribologist in the country.

So far you havn‘t shown it.

 

[Vermess]

OK, but surely you can appreciate the difference between an oil that "has no approvals" and is just "recommended for" and one that uses an approved additive package in a base oil blend that's well beyond the formulation/approval requirements, so it COULD be approved.

Yes sir, absolutely. Hence why I didn't mention any company. Just a blanket statement. Tbh, I was going to put in my comments (not x company) , but didn't want to ommit anyone else, didn't want to fanboy it up.

You have to admit to one company being transparent with their stocks, additives, etc, and having an almost open door policy with members and this site gives them that trust you alluded to in your post. Trust that goes beyond approvals, if we dare. It's brilliant for marketing, it builds trust, makes a heck of a product, and it's 'MURICAN makes it great.

Other companies do not, that does not mean their product isn't sufficient enough, hence approvals. While approvals can be met by 2 products, one can meet it, the other can also meet it but be a better oil.
If I know this, I am sure you do as well. Now, don't take the last comment out of context as I would not wish to pit my oil knowledge against yours, it would not be a fair fight for me.

Approvals are needed, they set a standard. But if you are going t9 recommend anything but, you need to back it up with facts pointing that user to concrete information about anything you are recommending. Saying just use "search" is n9t an option in this day as f9rmulations change, especially in this market. Anything less makes people look like hypocrites causing members, especially new ones to l9se credibility, as well as this site.

As I said, either preach a standard, if y9u do then turn around and deviate from that standard, better have a great reas9n not to. You did, hats off and thank you for the conversation/education.