2014 BMW 328D

[Bandito440]

Many of us just enjoy shifting a manual gearbox. They tend to be cheaper to purchase as well.

Also, it seems more likely that manual transmissions will have a real drain plug and dipstick for DIY fluid changes. I don't know about BMW's manual gearbox, but that was the case on a lot of vehicles I've looked at.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Also, it seems more likely that manual transmissions will have a real drain plug and dipstick for DIY fluid changes. I don't know about BMW's manual gearbox, but that was the case on a lot of vehicles I've looked at.

My '02 doesn't have a trans fluid dipstick. DIY fluid changes are doable, but not exactly easily accessible.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr
What is the fascination or preoccupation with a manual gearbox in the 328d? In BMW's at least every BMW that has both the 8 speed auto and a six speed manual, the ZF 8 speed gives better fuel economy and faster 0-60 times. What's the advantage then in a manual? I've had the 8 speed auto in a '12 535i and now in the 328d. In any of the various modes (comfort, sport, sport+) the 8 speed is perfectly programmed going both up and down (not so much in the VW DSG which holds on to top gear for dear life once you're there). I've always opted for the paddle shifters with the ZF auto, but they are really pretty much useless. Every time I reach for the paddles, the ecu beats me to the shift. It's like a mind reader.


Yes, I know.
I've driven a few DSG/DCT cars. I know it can shift faster than I can. (except for the SmartForTwo/DumbForAll...I can double clutch shift a 40 year old M35 Deuce and a Half faster than that thing shifts) I know it is quicker 0-60 than I can make a manual transmission go. I know it gets the same or better fuel economy than I can get.

....and I have hated every one of them that I have driven.

Maybe it's just my driving style that is wrong but I seem to be supremely capable of confusing the DSG in a Jetta GLi. From a standing start if you just lift off the brake and apply a small amount of throttle, you have to wait. Then it will go. Or if I am slowing down for a red light and it turns green, it seems like it will hesitate and then pick a gear at random. "...35 mph reading brake and now we are back at 15% throttle UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! BANG! SECOND GEAR!!!!!!"

And the VW was a pleasurable experience compared to the Focus.

My regular slushbox 41TE has no such problems. When I slow down and apply the throttle again, it's in the right gear. Only has 4 of 'em so I guess it has to "think" less.

My six speed Aisin is a bit more busy but seldom gets the gear wrong.

8 speed sounds like it would be even busier.

Besides that, there is something pleasurable about driving a manual. You know that you are in charge of staying on top of that torque wave in a diesel. Not some computer that "thinks" it knows you. Just you. It's a more connected experience with your machine.

My Mazda is the first automatic car I have owned in over 20 years. It's a nice car with a well sorted 6 speed, but it's also a reminder of why I did not have an automatic for so long. I can control the gear selection but it's not the same.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Also, it seems more likely that manual transmissions will have a real drain plug and dipstick for DIY fluid changes. I don't know about BMW's manual gearbox, but that was the case on a lot of vehicles I've looked at.

My '02 doesn't have a trans fluid dipstick. DIY fluid changes are doable, but not exactly easily accessible.

Is it just a drain plug and a fill plug that you top off until it overflows? My Forester is very easy with a short dipstick in a wide tube that I can get the top of a gear oil bottle into. I did the DIY change on the AT in my old Tacoma, which just had a fill hole, but you had to bring it up to a specific temp measured by the ECM. That was a pain.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Is it just a drain plug and a fill plug that you top off until it overflows?

My memory fails me. It's been a while since I changed the fluid last, but I think it's like you described above. It's not hard, but probably not easier than doing it on an automatic.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr
What is the fascination or preoccupation with a manual gearbox in the 328d? ...


On one hand I kind of getting wanting the manual, if you want to be involved, it is a way to be involved in the driving experience.

On recent BMW's where both are available I believe the manual is a no cost option (IE: not cheaper). The last time I walked a BMW lot there were literally NO manuals to be found...

But for a car I'm going to drive everyday and considering the days of a significant performance penalty are gone, I'll take one that does the shifting for me... Given a choice between a DSG or conventional automatic, I would pick the dual clutch.

Incidentally VW has a 7 speed DSG with dry clutches, but its currently only in the Jetta Hybrid (beside a 1.4TSI) in the US. I believe that torque capacity is an issue with it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
The last time I walked a BMW lot there were literally NO manuals to be found...

Yup. As much as some of us in this thread root for the manual, we are a tiny minority. BMW USA knows it, and hence they won't stock stick shift cars on the lot as they know it may take them longer to clear it off the lot. If anyone wants a stick BMW, he/she will have to special order it. This was the case even some 10+ years back.

 

[NateDN10]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr
What is the fascination or preoccupation with a manual gearbox in the 328d? In BMW's at least every BMW that has both the 8 speed auto and a six speed manual, the ZF 8 speed gives better fuel economy and faster 0-60 times. What's the advantage then in a manual? I've had the 8 speed auto in a '12 535i and now in the 328d. In any of the various modes (comfort, sport, sport+) the 8 speed is perfectly programmed going both up and down (not so much in the VW DSG which holds on to top gear for dear life once you're there). I've always opted for the paddle shifters with the ZF auto, but they are really pretty much useless. Every time I reach for the paddles, the ecu beats me to the shift. It's like a mind reader.

No doubt an automatic/DSG can give better times. A manual is just more fun.

 

[Vikas]

What is the meaning of "economy oriented" as noted in the original post? When optioned, this vehicle is running closer to $60K than $30K. If I can purchase $60K vehicle, should I be worried about fuel expenditure?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
What is the meaning of "economy oriented" as noted in the original post? When optioned, this vehicle is running closer to $60K than $30K. If I can purchase $60K vehicle, should I be worried about fuel expenditure?


Is that a real question?

 

[m6pwr]

If a manual tranny is more fun for a driver then that's fine and I can see why he or she would prefer it. It would be obligatory for CCA driver's schools.

Me, I'm 74 years old. I'm old enough to remember cars with non-synchro crash boxes, and manually operated ignition advance switches. After over half a century of driving sticks, I've chalked up 200,000 & 1/2 heel-and-toe double clutch downshifts. All of them perfect of course - - except for that one that was really bad. So I just luvs my ZF 8 speed.

On the other hand, BMW has always been one to ease the load of the operator. Anyone who has piloted a piston engine aircraft with a constant speed prop knows about the challenge of simultaneously juggling both the throttle and prop controls. So when BMW designed the radial engine for the Focke Wulf 190 fighter, they came up with an innovation to allow the pilot to perfectly control both with only one lever. This allowed the pilot to give his full attention to other matters - - like staying alive.

Today, BMW still strives to meet the needs of its owners. I bet they could come up with an INVOLVING PACKAGE. It would include a non-synchro stick shift and a manually operated ignition advance. Every time the operator grinds the gears or pings the engine, the driver would receive a heavy, but non-lethal, jolt of electricity through the seat. The driver would then be said to be . . . really involved.

 

[MCompact]

As an owner of nine BMW over 30 years, the thing that irritates me most about the newer cars is the increased level of isolation between the car and the driver. The accusation that Munich's goal is to build a German Lexus isn't far of the mark- in my opinion at least. I don't expect s 2002-or even an E30-level of communicative steering and responsive handling, but when I get out of an F30 and immediately jump into my son's X3 and find the truck to be a more involving drive, something is rotten in Bavaria...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
What is the meaning of "economy oriented" as noted in the original post? When optioned, this vehicle is running closer to $60K than $30K. If I can purchase $60K vehicle, should I be worried about fuel expenditure?


I could buy a $60k car if I desired. I dont. Id consider a nice wagon for $40-45k if it was set up as I liked it. But then again, is it REALLY twice as good as a Jetta TDI??? Or am I happier sitting on the $20k delta or putting it towards buying another weekend home?

Choices, choices.

And if I cant get it as I want it, the interest wanes bigtime.

But regardless of if one can buy one of these or not, if one is driving, it will be a $1k+/year fuel bill. $1k is not much on a $40k+ vehicle, but it is still a good amount of money. Should someone be concerned? Yes. I heard once to look out for the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves. Ive found that to be generally true, though of course one can also be penny wise, pound foolish. In the case of auto ownership related to fuel costs, Ive found the former to be more accurate.

Does one need to worry about it? Likely not (though Id imagine many lease these cars and are stretched to the gills with debt to their eyeballs). Should one worry about it? Absolutely, IMO. Some of us do really well as professionals to the point that we can buy most anything we want cash... Doesnt mean were filthy rich or that we should...

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: Vikas
What is the meaning of "economy oriented" as noted in the original post? When optioned, this vehicle is running closer to $60K than $30K. If I can purchase $60K vehicle, should I be worried about fuel expenditure?


Is that a real question?

For the record, what I meant by "economy oriented" is that in relation to the prior 3 series diesel (335d - 33mpg IIRC) the tuning and package seems to have a heavier bias toward reduced fuel consumption (and all that entails from cost to environmental impact) vs the heavier performance bias of the 335d.

As for what purchasers of $60,000 cars should be worried about, that seems the purview of the purchaser.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Vikas
What is the meaning of "economy oriented" as noted in the original post? When optioned, this vehicle is running closer to $60K than $30K. If I can purchase $60K vehicle, should I be worried about fuel expenditure?


I could buy a $60k car if I desired. I dont. Id consider a nice wagon for $40-45k if it was set up as I liked it. But then again, is it REALLY twice as good as a Jetta TDI??? Or am I happier sitting on the $20k delta or putting it towards buying another weekend home?

Choices, choices.

And if I cant get it as I want it, the interest wanes bigtime.

But regardless of if one can buy one of these or not, if one is driving, it will be a $1k+/year fuel bill. $1k is not much on a $40k+ vehicle, but it is still a good amount of money. Should someone be concerned? Yes. I heard once to look out for the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves. Ive found that to be generally true, though of course one can also be penny wise, pound foolish. In the case of auto ownership related to fuel costs, Ive found the former to be more accurate.

Does one need to worry about it? Likely not (though Id imagine many lease these cars and are stretched to the gills with debt to their eyeballs). Should one worry about it? Absolutely, IMO. Some of us do really well as professionals to the point that we can buy most anything we want cash... Doesnt mean were filthy rich or that we should...



Exactly. Just because you CAN doesn't always mean you SHOULD...

 

[hattaresguy]

I still like the old M6.


IMHO BMW got a bit to cleaver for themselves. With plastic electric water pumps and such, the old school ones are still the best.

At Limerock the old CSL's and the M1, wow, just wow!

Electronic [censored] doesn't make a good car!