2011 Ford Fiesta 6-Spd Dual-Shift Gearbox!

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Small-car auto transmissions are asking for abuse.


?!?!

Small car automatics have the easiest job in the world. Its the automatics behind Cummins 24-valvers in 3/4 ton Rams and the automatics behind the new 6.7 Powerstroke in F350s that have their work cut out for them.


Those are likely having ATF changed somewhat regularly, and have additional filters to deal with the stress.

Small car AT's are subject to a lot more neglect than diesel truck transmissions. The typical buyer isn't thinking they have to change the ATF every so often. As long as it runs and drives they don't care.

Apparently the Fit's AT can lock the TCC in ALL 5 forward gears. I'd imagine that locking/unlocking all the time is pure murder on the fluid, in addition to being the one Honda that has torque under 2000 RPM. Add in spirited driving, an aggressive TCC management strategy, and lots of revs to get the perfect recipe for roasting ATF to a crisp in around a year of driving.

 

[Kaboomba]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Also I don't see anything "automatic" ever being cheaper than a manual gearbox


This one might be. I'm sure they are exchanging some complex machined parts (gears, shafts, bearings, rods, linkage) for simple spin-em-and-press-em parts (solenoids/linear actuators) and software. They probably win on assembly labor cost reduction alone.

Don't worry, the DSG has just as many complex machined gears, shafts, bearings, etc as the regular old manual. Replacing a single, manually actuated clutch with an electronically actuated clutch pack (complete with "micro slipping"!) and all the required sensors, actuators, electronics, etc and it's bound to be more expensive.

jeff



Why does that have to be necessarily so?

I'm just saying Don't Assume. Ford is serious about winning these days. Don't automatically think that all ATX will always be more expensive to build or buy than all MTX. Times are a-changin.

 

[badtlc]

Great move by Ford.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Small-car auto transmissions are asking for abuse.


?!?!

Small car automatics have the easiest job in the world. Its the automatics behind Cummins 24-valvers in 3/4 ton Rams and the automatics behind the new 6.7 Powerstroke in F350s that have their work cut out for them.
That is because they are not built heavy duty enough. plain and simple

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
How anyone could read that article and conclude that DSG is a better technology than a regular manual transmission is beyond me.

jeff
In advance, I dislike these transmissions as I dislike automatic transmissions. Auto transmissions are good for forklifts.

 

[ffhdriver]

VW and Audi are having all kinds of trouble with with the control units on their wet clutch DSG transmissions. I hope Ford does it better.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: ffhdriver
VW and Audi are having all kinds of trouble with with the control units on their wet clutch DSG transmissions. I hope Ford does it better.


Well, VW and electronics haven't always been the best of friends, have they?


I happen to like A/Ts, and I think this might be a good step forward. Only time will tell as far as longevity, durability are concerned.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

or a conventional automatic with less

Simple is better. I mean, advancements are fun to play with and whatnot...marvel over how they did this or that, but if they're not going to bother to engineer reliability and durability along the lines of excellence, I'd really rather that they don't reach too far beyond their grasp on my nickle.



Amen. What rubs me the wrong way about the transmission being described here is that they've eliminated fluid pumps, coolers, and alleged "complexity," then they have to have an electronic brain to feather the clutch, and another electronic nanny to keep it from burning up, and an extensive study to see if the nanny really works at keeping it from burning up.

That's simple? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?. Torque convertors work, they have 4 moving parts, and they're tough as nails. So they're a little inefficient under certain conditions. I can live with that, because they LIVE through any driving condition. And so do regular old MANUAL transmissions, too. I don't get this nonsense of trying to make an automatic behave like a manual (paddle shifting stupidity and whatnot) or making a manual behave like an automatic. But that's just me.

 

[Kaboomba]

I hear ya, 440. BUT:

I'll betcha the clutch control nanny is no more complicated than the nannys that control emissions and many other tasks on many cars for the last 20 years.

Also, given time, MTX's are only as bulletproof as the skills of the person(s) using them.

Finally, virtually all modern ATX's use torque converter clutches which are electronically controlled. And virtually all modern ATX's, even simple ones, have had problems at some point in their production lives.

So, personally, when I look at this new transmission, I'm not seeing a hodge-podge of an ATX that looks like it fell out of MacGyver's Jeep. I'm seeing a systematic merging of proven technologies in modular fashion by a company that has been doing very well with such things as of late.

 

[Vizzy]

Don't buy into this phoney manual shifter..its only an automatic that uses a computer to make you THINK you are shifting manually...not to mention the extra cost and complexity involved..after the warranty runs out the car will burn a hole in your pocket...STAY AWAY FROM THESE TYPES OF TRANSMISSIONS!!!!!!

In the Fiesta, get the manual...it is what chosen in 98% of all Fiestas sold in Europe, where it was designed.

There is no substitute for a REAL manual transmission...cheaper to buy, more durable, and cheaper to maintain and fix after the warranty runs out. You've been warned.

 

[Herz]

yuck made in mexico, but i would let others try it out and find all the problems with it before I ever do lol. I dont trust brand new tech.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Don't buy into this phoney manual shifter..its only an automatic that uses a computer to make you THINK you are shifting manually...not to mention the extra cost and complexity involved..after the warranty runs out the car will burn a hole in your pocket...STAY AWAY FROM THESE TYPES OF TRANSMISSIONS!!!!!!

In the Fiesta, get the manual...it is what chosen in 98% of all Fiestas sold in Europe, where it was designed.

There is no substitute for a REAL manual transmission...cheaper to buy, more durable, and cheaper to maintain and fix after the warranty runs out. You've been warned.


Wow. Stop hatin' on automatics. This works the same as a manual, only the computer does the shifting and clutching.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: defektes
yuck made in mexico, but i would let others try it out and find all the problems with it before I ever do lol. I dont trust brand new tech.


Fusion is made in Mexico, but is top rated in quality and reliability. Mexico = Better than China for quality.

 

[Vizzy]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
[]

Wow. Stop hatin' on automatics. This works the same as a manual, only the computer does the shifting and clutching.


No...I hate automatics because reduce the interaction that the driver has with his car....allowing for increased distractions from stereos, phones, ect....increases laziness on the part of the driver.

You can't counter the facts I had posted perviously .....

More complexity and electronics will result in less relability and servicing costs in the end..not to mention the additional expense when first purchased....

Sure for folks that live in grid lock traffic areas it might be the only choice...but in any case look for a TRADITIONAL automatic if you need one...stay away from these manumatics...you've been warned again!

 

[Vizzy]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: defektes
yuck made in mexico, but i would let others try it out and find all the problems with it before I ever do lol. I dont trust brand new tech.


Fusion is made in Mexico, but is top rated in quality and reliability. Mexico = Better than China for quality.


Actually the Hybrid is made in Mexico....as is the Fiesta..which have quality control issues ....

If you're looking for a Fusion buy the regular one made in Wayne, MI USA... this is the model with top QC honors.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: Nick R
[]

Wow. Stop hatin' on automatics. This works the same as a manual, only the computer does the shifting and clutching.


No...I hate automatics because reduce the interaction that the driver has with his car....allowing for increased distractions from stereos, phones, ect....increases laziness on the part of the driver.

You can't counter the facts I had posted perviously .....

More complexity and electronics will result in less relability and servicing costs in the end..not to mention the additional expense when first purchased....

Sure for folks that live in grid lock traffic areas it might be the only choice...but in any case look for a TRADITIONAL automatic if you need one...stay away from these manumatics...you've been warned again!


Whatever man you obviously know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING and thus are the expert on all things transmission and geared.

 

[badtlc]

The Fusion is assembled in Hermosillo, Mexico.

The DC transmission has gears and clutches like a manual, not an automatic. It is just an electronic gear shifter.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: defektes
yuck made in mexico, but i would let others try it out and find all the problems with it before I ever do lol. I dont trust brand new tech.


Fusion is made in Mexico, but is top rated in quality and reliability. Mexico = Better than China for quality.


Actually the Hybrid is made in Mexico....as is the Fiesta..which have quality control issues ....

If you're looking for a Fusion buy the regular one made in Wayne, MI USA... this is the model with top QC honors.



Wrong, 100% wrong. Both the Non-hybrid AND hybrid versions of the Fusion are made in Hermosillo.

Under "Vital Stats"

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2010_Ford_Fusion_Hybrid.pdf

 

[bdcardinal]

Every Fusion I have seen come through my work has a VIN which begins with 3 which means made in Mexico.

 

[Nick R]

Just because it's mexican doesn't mean it's bad quality. Same thing goes, and I say this grudgingly, for China. In certain areas, anyway.