2000 CRV Shift Flare in A/T

[JZiggy]

My 2000 CRV, A/T 4WD EX, has recently started acting up when upshifting from 2-3 sometimes. It usually happens when accelerating relatively hard and allowing the RPMs to exceed 3000.

For example, the tach will read 3500 and the transmission will begin to shift from 2nd to 3rd. The rpms will then jump to 3800, float there for a second, and then shift up into 3rd gear. I understand this is called a "flare."

It does not do this all the time, but I had never noticed it before. Shifts were always nice and crisp. Other than this issue the transmission doesn't do anything out of the ordinary.

Fluid is clean, I do a drain/fill around every 10k. I also have a Magnefine filter inline with the cooling circuit. The last one was on there about 30k. I inspected it when I replaced it and it was quite clean. The tranny does not appear to be shedding much.

A little searching and perusing the FSM leads me to suspect the following things that I could inspect/change/service:
- Throttle cable
- TPS
- A/T temp sensor
- Linear shift solenoid or gasket/filter
- A/B shift solenoid or gasket/filter
- A/B lockup solenoid or gasket/filter

The FSM troubleshooting guide also suggests this issue could be due to a worn clutch. If that's the case, then I'd be looking at a rebuild. I've dropped a handful of Honda and Toyota manual transmissions but never an A/T. Any reason this should be much harder? Would I have to get a new torque converter too?

I'd appreciate any input or suggestions.

 

[JZiggy]

Also, I use Maxlife with Lubegard red and have for 30k. I'd like to avoid the "why don't you just use Honda ATF, dummy" flame, unless you've experienced a similar issue and the ATF was indeed the culprit.

 

[fdcg27]

Flare on upshifts is not a good sign, especially since you've attended to fluid changes.
You can expect some additonal use from this tranny and it may return to normal operation when the whether gets warmer.
WRT R&R, does this CRV have a cradle under the engine and tranny?
If so, you'll need to support the engine from above to remove the tranny.
Bear in mind that the autobox weighs more than 200 lbs, so it isn't as easy to handle as a manual transaxle.
Most rebuilds come with a new TC and a good rebuilt should run around 1K + shipping.
I'm assuming that you have one of the panless trannys that were typical on Hondas of the era.
If so, there is no filter you can replace nor anything else you can do without removing the thing and taking it apart.

 

[JC1]

Has the magnefine been on their for 30K? I believe they recommend changing them every 15k.

Regards, JC.

 

[JZiggy]

I don't think it really has a cradle. I do have a hoist so I could suspend the engine while pulling it. Good to know that it's chunkier than an MT.

The vehicle just turned 160k. I guess I'm puzzled that it should start acting up this early in life. I don't think the 1st gen CR-Vs were known for trans problems.

 

[JZiggy]

There's a new Magnefine on there now. I chose to run it to 30k because fluid looked so clean. The filter element was still quite clean when I took the old Magnefine apart.

 

[gregk24]

It could just be from age and normal wear, but these have been known to go much further than 160K. You said not to mention it, but Honda transmissions should have Honda fluid. They dont seem to like other fluids, Maxlife has worked well in some Honda applications but IMO there is no substitute for the real deal. My old 1995 Accord had its transmission services done with "import" ATF before I got it, probably the Castrol import or Valvoline import fluid. When I purchased the car I had a drain and fill done at the Honda dealer with ATF Z-1, the car shifted like BUTTER, could not even feel the shifting which is incredible for an Accord of that time, especially one with over 200K miles. It fixed the hesitation too. Thats just my experience though. Maybe when the Accord hits 300K miles I'll consider Maxlife....or not.

 

[JZiggy]

Thanks. May be willing to go to OEM fluid to see if it helps.

 

[fdcg27]

These are different trannys with different durability levels.
The '94-97 Honda automatic was very good.
The '98-02 wasn't.
No fluid change will help with this.

 

[jmb106]

Originally Posted By: JZiggy
My 2000 CRV, A/T 4WD EX, has recently started acting up when upshifting from 2-3 sometimes. It usually happens when accelerating relatively hard and allowing the RPMs to exceed 3000.

For example, the tach will read 3500 and the transmission will begin to shift from 2nd to 3rd. The rpms will then jump to 3800, float there for a second, and then shift up into 3rd gear. I understand this is called a "flare."

It does not do this all the time, but I had never noticed it before. Shifts were always nice and crisp. Other than this issue the transmission doesn't do anything out of the ordinary.

Fluid is clean, I do a drain/fill around every 10k. I also have a Magnefine filter inline with the cooling circuit. The last one was on there about 30k. I inspected it when I replaced it and it was quite clean. The tranny does not appear to be shedding much.

A little searching and perusing the FSM leads me to suspect the following things that I could inspect/change/service:
- Throttle cable
- TPS
- A/T temp sensor
- Linear shift solenoid or gasket/filter
- A/B shift solenoid or gasket/filter
- A/B lockup solenoid or gasket/filter

The FSM troubleshooting guide also suggests this issue could be due to a worn clutch. If that's the case, then I'd be looking at a rebuild. I've dropped a handful of Honda and Toyota manual transmissions but never an A/T. Any reason this should be much harder? Would I have to get a new torque converter too?

I'd appreciate any input or suggestions.


I would doubt its the TPS. you can check the A/B Shift and Lockup solenoids by unpluging them and applying 12v to them and listen for clicking if they click they are fine. I would think by the symptoms that you are looking at a repalcement, I had the same symptoms on my 97 Acura Cl and it only got worse. Ended up buying a JDM repacement on Ebay for $350 shipped to me.Its a little harder than a stick to replace but if you can replace a stick you can do an auto in that car. And yes i would replace the torque converter you dont want it contaminating your replacement tranny. the JDM trannys generally come w/ a torque converter and lines, starter ect.Here is a site for a downloadable service manual that has all the directions for removal and instalation and trouble shooting the tranny, engine ect. I also use VML ATF in all my Honda's w/ no problems!

http://hondatech.info/downloads/Auto/Manuals/CR-V/

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
These are different trannys with different durability levels.
The '94-97 Honda automatic was very good.
The '98-02 wasn't.
No fluid change will help with this.


And the OP has a CRV which has a very good tranny.

 

[Bryankkkk]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
These are different trannys with different durability levels.
The '94-97 Honda automatic was very good.
The '98-02 wasn't.
No fluid change will help with this.


The accord's and Civics had the issues, the CRV's did not, Ive seen many with 200k+ miles on the autos.

 

[JZiggy]

Yes, that is what is a bit baffling.

 

[Chris142]

160K is imo a lot for an a/t. I never got that kind of life out of them. The clutches and plates may be fine but you may have a hardened rubber in it somewhere and fixing that requires a complete tear down.

 

[gathermewool]

My wife's '08 Civic has just about 100k miles on it and it has recently started flaring when cold.

We bought at 60k and I did two D&F's with DW-1, a few thousand apart, IRRC.

Not too long ago, I decided to do another D&F, but this time with Maxlife, due to the great reviews, even in Honda AT's. It may be a coincidence, but now I'm thinking about giving away the additional quart I have of the Maxlife and doing a couple of quick D&F's of DW-1 the next chance I get.

Keep in mind that this isn't my car, so I rarely drive it. It wasn't until a couple of weeks ago that I realized the change in AT performance. I've been busy, but next weekend I'll be changing her oil and hopefully swapping out a suspected failed hydraulic mount. I might as well D&F the ATF, as well to see if it helps. I'll make sure to post back if it does.

 

[JZiggy]

Please do, thanks for the input. This is also my wife's car so my data gathering is not as complete as for my own cars.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I've used both MaxLife and Castrol IMV fluids in both of our Honda transmissions, and liked the MaxLife the least in both. It did display odd shifting behavior in both, but not initially. It seemed like the Acura's transmission really beat the fluid down, and it'd start to have very soft/slow/slippery shifts. It was kind of the opposite in our Honda...shifts were very notchy and the 2-3 shift didn't come with a flare, but it felt like a "double shift", with a sharp "impulse" after what felt like the real shift. And like in your CR-V, this would really only happen with more moderate throttle and upshifts north of 3,000 rpm. All that cleared up with both Castrol IMV and Honda DW-1. I didn't dislike the Castrol, but it's about the same price as OEM in my neck of the woods, so I've gone back to OEM.

I'd highly recommend trying the Castrol or the OEM fluid in yours.

 

[CharBaby]

My'04 Altima 2.5S auto tranny shift flares more on the Castrol IMV than with MaxLife. It's been better lately but, not gone completely!

I'd try Mobil 1 again in this tranny but, I'd hate to waste money on the cost of the M1 if there is no change. I used M1 on my very 1st D&F with this tranny in about 2006-07. Then went to IMV in 2010 and ML in '13.

Although, I can't be quite certain, IIRC the shift flare started not long after the IMV Change over...Coincidence?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
160K is imo a lot for an a/t. I never got that kind of life out of them. The clutches and plates may be fine but you may have a hardened rubber in it somewhere and fixing that requires a complete tear down.


Though Ive had superior life out of older models from higher end brands like MB, I wouldnt put any faith in an AT past around 160k, especially a Honda one. Maybe the CRV units are better than others, but that may just be anecdotal too. Its foolish not to start saving for replacement once 150k or so hits. If the AT stays good, its money in the bank.

 

[supton]

I hate reading about such a short life for an automatic, now that I own one. And since the next vehicle will likely also have an automatic--and that one will get lots of miles as a commuter vehicle. I should probably just get a Prius for a commuter next time, that has the least number of parts for an automatic. [Or another econobox.]

I've noticed I've got 4-5 flare on my Tundra, that does not bode well. I only get it when I hold it in 4th then click up for 5th.

I did buy it to only go to 150k over the next 10 years; but at the rate I'm driving it I'll be there in less than 7.