'19 Tiguan, my first VW experience

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
508 is supposed to have green dye in it also
This is true. I would hurriedly put in real 508 oil in the event of a warranty engine claim to make sure they didn't ding me on using Castrol Edge Extended Performance 229.71 oil instead of their sacred 508 oil.

Originally Posted by dishdude
I'm doing M1 Euro 0w-40 from Costco for $26.99 a case at 10k intervals. Being in Phoenix, the coldest it will see is 40F and that's only for a week or two.
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Sounds safe. If you go thicker, I would just use 5w30 M1 Annual Protection in Phx though, at 10k intervals. Your 0w40 should work OK, since VW's warnings about using only 0w20 seem silly. Something about 2 less gear teeth on the oil pump for this new version of the engine that makes the oil pump turn faster. Anything from xw20 to xw40 should work fine I would guess.

Strange world we live in: We got a 6-year warranty due to sneaky software & engineering managers at VW cheating on diesel emissions, causing VW to try to regain some sales and goodwill by offering this warranty. Thank you sleazy engineers & managers!
 
Another gamer. Instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you game the system to get away with it.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Another gamer. Instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you game the system to get away with it.



Who are you referring to?
 
Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by PimTac
Another gamer. Instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you game the system to get away with it.



Who are you referring to?




The guy who said that in case of a warranty engine claim he would drain his Castrol and refill with the approved VW oil.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by PimTac
Another gamer. Instead of taking responsibility for your own actions you game the system to get away with it.



Who are you referring to?




The guy who said that in case of a warranty engine claim he would drain his Castrol and refill with the approved VW oil.


Thanks for clarifying. I would prefer a war with VW and an entertaining thread on BITOG. But we all know that'll never happen just from using an unspecified high quality motor oil.
 
Originally Posted by paoester
There are several reasons to believe Castrol Edge Extended Performance (CEEP) 0w20 (gold) is the same or nearly the same as VW 508 Castrol.
1. Both use Ti.
2. CEEP has Mercedes 229.71, but they don't put it on the bottle or jug(!)
3. Both are good for high miles.
4. Castrol could save money sharing formulas.

If you think Mercedes 229.71 has similar performance tests levels as VW 508, then you might think they are the same.
[Linked Image]


Its all not quite 100% convincing of course. Just raises suspicion.

No CEEP does not have MB 229.71. CEEP that you listed is Castrol UK. BIG DIFFERENCE!
 
Originally Posted by paoester
edyvw is right about the formulas not being the same. I still wonder how he thought he knew that. (Evidence please.) Maybe they only differ by base oil slightly though, from these viscometrics off the U.S. and German websites:
[Linked Image]


Though it's still interesting that walmart Castrol EP "CEEP" is 229.71. That's good news for Mercedes owners looking for a good cheaper source, but VW508 hunters are still left to figure out whether the 229.71 rating is good enough for us.
Also, notice the BEVO Mercedes list includes their C5 (Volvo approved) Edge oil, and their SuperCar oil which is actually only labelled as SN GF5 !!!
A lot of weirdness, but clues are there.


I know it is not the same as both MB 229.71 and VW 508.00 are going to have far more stringent demands than your average 0W20.
Pour point in those tables indicates more PAO in Castrol 0W20 available in Europe.
Edit:
Here is Castrol Edge 0W20 LLIV msds:
Castrol Edge 0W20 LLIV MSDS
 
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508 appears to be a fairly stringent spec. It has been opined that it requires a predominately PAO formulation...

My dealer charges about 8.00 a QT for the approved oil over the counter, which isn't that bad.

I don't understand the aversion around here to using the right oil, but it is your car... your decision... best of luck.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
No CEEP does not have MB 229.71. CEEP that you listed is Castrol UK. BIG DIFFERENCE!
Bevo listed it actually. They don't sell a product labelled CEEP 0w-20 "Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0w-20" in the UK. Or Germany. Or Australia..... Only in N. America. (They list Swindon because that's their world headquarters.) You can get Castrol Edge 0w-20 V (V for Volvo; C5) and Castrol Supercar 0w-20 in the UK, and both of those are 229.71 according to bevo too, although not on the label, oddly! UK VW-Audi dealers may have the 508 Castrol like the U.S. gets, but no CEEP there either.

If bevo is right, CEEP is 229.71. SuperCar and their C5 0w20s too. Which could make sense if Castrol is selling whatever production stock they have of those 3 and bottling or tanking it for Mercedes dealerships, or plans to soon, similar to what they do in the U.S. by offering their 508-specific product only to dealerships, with ebay & ECSTuning able to finagle some for us anyway. Business strategery.


Originally Posted by edyvw
Pour point in those tables indicates more PAO in Castrol 0W20 available in Europe.
Here is Castrol Edge 0W20 LLIV msds:
Castrol Edge 0W20 LLIV MSDS
PAO lowers pour point, and thinner base oils lower KV40 & CCS, so you are right the base oils are different. 508 Castrol has 1/3 PAO and is thinner.

For CEEP, https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/B34A1D387D893D9C8025845700549A6C/$File/2518114.pdf that says it has zero PAO. I guess if we like PAO then we have to get M1 AP 0w20 or EP which is all PAO.
 
Originally Posted by DuckRyder
508 appears to be a fairly stringent spec. It has been opined that it requires a predominately PAO formulation...

My dealer charges about 8.00 a QT for the approved oil over the counter, which isn't that bad.

I don't understand the aversion around here to using the right oil, but it is your car... your decision... best of luck.


508 Castrol is 1/3 PAO, which is not bad. M1 EP and AP are all PAO. I think I just overpaid for ECSTuning's 508 Castrol kit if the dealership will let it go for 8 or 9 bucks a quart with tax. I always assume dealerships gouge you good on OE-specific oil. If I can get it for that, then might just use it. Even paying extra for 508 M1 from SunCoast Porsche might be OK since that oil is labelled (full disclosure) with 508, 229.71, Jaguar, Porsche, dexosD, hits everything.
 
Originally Posted by paoester
Originally Posted by edyvw
No CEEP does not have MB 229.71. CEEP that you listed is Castrol UK. BIG DIFFERENCE!
Bevo listed it actually. They don't sell a product labelled CEEP 0w-20 "Castrol Edge Extended Performance 0w-20" in the UK. Or Germany. Or Australia..... Only in N. America. (They list Swindon because that's their world headquarters.) You can get Castrol Edge 0w-20 V (V for Volvo; C5) and Castrol Supercar 0w-20 in the UK, and both of those are 229.71 according to bevo too, although not on the label, oddly! UK VW-Audi dealers may have the 508 Castrol like the U.S. gets, but no CEEP there either.

If bevo is right, CEEP is 229.71. SuperCar and their C5 0w20s too. Which could make sense if Castrol is selling whatever production stock they have of those 3 and bottling or tanking it for Mercedes dealerships, or plans to soon, similar to what they do in the U.S. by offering their 508-specific product only to dealerships, with ebay & ECSTuning able to finagle some for us anyway. Business strategery.


Originally Posted by edyvw
Pour point in those tables indicates more PAO in Castrol 0W20 available in Europe.
Here is Castrol Edge 0W20 LLIV msds:
Castrol Edge 0W20 LLIV MSDS
PAO lowers pour point, and thinner base oils lower KV40 & CCS, so you are right the base oils are different. 508 Castrol has 1/3 PAO and is thinner.

For CEEP, https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/B34A1D387D893D9C8025845700549A6C/$File/2518114.pdf that says it has zero PAO. I guess if we like PAO then we have to get M1 AP 0w20 or EP which is all PAO.

Again, CEEP is NOT MB229.71. MB 229.71 is more stringent than VW 508.00/509.00 and there is NO WAY ILSAC GF-5 or API SN+ will be on that level. Yes, BEVO is having it wrong! You are right about Swindon, I was thinking they are referring to who issued PDS.
As for PAO, how did you get it is 1/3? It is 25-50% so you are guessing.
Also, EP and AP ARE NOT ALL PAO! They are also mix, and for 2019 probably below 50% PAO. M1 5W30 EP for example is 20-30% PAO.
 
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I can't figure out the schizophrenic powertrain in this car. I was ticked off a few days ago by someone taking way too long to turn and floored it. Nothing happened for the 2-3 secs I had my right foot mashed to the floor - the speedo never moved from 8 MPH! By the time anything happened my anger had passed. Today I was trying to make a left turn and gave it 1/4 throttle when traffic was open and the tires broke loose. This thing falls flat on it's face or it's balls to the walls and there's no way to tell which you're getting.
 
Originally Posted by dishdude
I can't figure out the schizophrenic powertrain in this car. I was ticked off a few days ago by someone taking way too long to turn and floored it. Nothing happened for the 2-3 secs I had my right foot mashed to the floor - the speedo never moved from 8 MPH! By the time anything happened my anger had passed. Today I was trying to make a left turn and gave it 1/4 throttle when traffic was open and the tires broke loose. This thing falls flat on it's face or it's balls to the walls and there's no way to tell which you're getting.


Was it in Eco mode first time? Or needed to "hunt down" proper gear?
 
Originally Posted by dishdude
I can't figure out the schizophrenic powertrain in this car. I was ticked off a few days ago by someone taking way too long to turn and floored it. Nothing happened for the 2-3 secs I had my right foot mashed to the floor - the speedo never moved from 8 MPH! By the time anything happened my anger had passed. Today I was trying to make a left turn and gave it 1/4 throttle when traffic was open and the tires broke loose. This thing falls flat on it's face or it's balls to the walls and there's no way to tell which you're getting.



Probably detected some wheel spin and cut power. My Durango and Caliber would do that exactly as you described and it was infuriating.
 
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by dishdude
I can't figure out the schizophrenic powertrain in this car. I was ticked off a few days ago by someone taking way too long to turn and floored it. Nothing happened for the 2-3 secs I had my right foot mashed to the floor - the speedo never moved from 8 MPH! By the time anything happened my anger had passed. Today I was trying to make a left turn and gave it 1/4 throttle when traffic was open and the tires broke loose. This thing falls flat on it's face or it's balls to the walls and there's no way to tell which you're getting.



Probably detected some wheel spin and cut power. My Durango and Caliber would do that exactly as you described and it was infuriating.


That's the crazy part! I had floored it and nothing happened, there was no wheel spin, the engine RPMs never even increased. The next day I make a left, give it 1/4 throttle and the tires break loose and the car goes like crazy! I slowly lifted my right foot just to confirm how much throttle input I gave it. I can't begin to describe how unpredictable the power output on this car is.

All in all it is a good daily driver other than this crazy powertrain.
 
Besides the DI and plastic intake manifold issues, those are sweet little engines. Glad you got the 6 year warranty. I loved my VW's but they can be a handful in their later years.

VW's are picky about fluids, make sure you get the spec fluids back in there. I'd recommend following the maintenance schedule to a "T". You'll notice they are a little more needy than domestic and Asian makes.

Enjoy the Tig, they like to be driven! :)
 
dishdude said:
I can't figure out the schizophrenic powertrain in this car. I was ticked off a few days ago by someone taking way too long to turn and floored it. Nothing happened for the 2-3 secs I had my right foot mashed to the floor - the speedo never moved from 8 MPH! By the time anything happened my anger had passed. Today I was trying to make a left turn and gave it 1/4 throttle when traffic was open and the tires broke loose. This thing falls flat on it's face or it's balls to the walls and there's no way to tell which you're getting.
Click to expand...
That's why I got rid of our Explorer. Infuriating nanny throttle.
Well one of the reasons.
 
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