184K mi Toyota 3RZ-FE w/M1 internal pics

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OK.

Maybe a better question is, if you did not know what the oil was, what would you think at 184k miles.

I do like that the engine is so clean.
 
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
Same accusation could be made of you. Without fact, all we get is the 31 years comment.

I'd like an answer from someone who knows (Ive already asked Terry to look).

1) Is this a wear step?

2) If so, is it acceptable for 184k or not?

I do not know, so I'd like a good answer. Goes to the higher Iron/Cam wear thing again....


Good questions. Technically, the two camshafts will exhibit different wear characteristics. The KA24 IV-A test engine's camshaft is contacting a 'friction pad' (as opposed to a roller) on the rocker arm. This is a great way to test cam wear because the 'pad' only contacts just over 90% of the cam lobe from side to side allowing a clearly visible "control" strip of reference between wear and baseline.

The Toyota engine uses a direct acting bucket lifter, where the entire cam lobe is in contact with the top of the bucket. Therefore, the entire lobe will wear 'evenly', minus the slight bias to one side that has an effect of rotating the bucket, so as to further even wear on it.

Despite the patterns, I think it could still be called step wear. What we're seeing in the photo is in fact a lateral step, (as opposed to a circumfrential one) thats been cut and polished into the cam lobe. The edges of the lobe in this case offers another perspective of the wear pattern, as you can see dents in the "egg" shape, when it should be completely smooth, even and sinusoidal. From a mechanic's perspective, that is significant damage as the damage will also introduce harmonics into the valvespring due to 'step wear' in the peak of the profile.
 
I would think, WOW, What oil has kept this engine this clean. It's my considerable lifetime of experience, that clean parts are long lived parts.
 
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Originally Posted By: elwaylite
Same accusation could be made of you. Without fact, all we get is the 31 years comment.

I'd like an answer from someone who knows (Ive already asked Terry to look).

1) Is this a wear step?

2) If so, is it acceptable for 184k or not?

I do not know, so I'd like a good answer. Goes to the higher Iron/Cam wear thing again....


Good questions. Technically, the two camshafts will exhibit different wear characteristics. The KA24 IV-A test engine's camshaft is contacting a 'friction pad' (as opposed to a roller) on the rocker arm. This is a great way to test cam wear because the 'pad' only contacts just over 90% of the cam lobe from side to side allowing a clearly visible "control" strip of reference between wear and baseline.

The Toyota engine uses a direct acting bucket lifter, where the entire cam lobe is in contact with the top of the bucket. Therefore, the entire lobe will wear 'evenly', minus the slight bias to one side that has an effect of rotating the bucket, so as to further even wear on it.

Despite the patterns, I think it could still be called step wear. What we're seeing in the photo is in fact a lateral step, (as opposed to a circumfrential one) thats been cut and polished into the cam lobe. The edges of the lobe in this case offers another perspective of the wear pattern, as you can see dents in the "egg" shape, when it should be completely smooth, even and sinusoidal. From a mechanic's perspective, that is significant damage as the damage will also introduce harmonics into the valvespring due to 'step wear' in the peak of the profile.


Those are a lot of conclusions to draw from a non-macro photo with the flash on.
 
I do not think those cam lobes look exc3essively worn at all and that was one of my jobs when I worked for the General was forensic engine tear down of engines and transmissions that failed under warranty or when clustering of problems where evadent etc..... I think the way the photo was taken does not help though they really have too much glare on that shot. Normaly when a part is documented it is done so out of the engine wiped clean and shot by an actualy photographer to get everything right. I am thinking this is the resuolt of a closeup shot from a point and shoot pocket digital camera with built in flash. I am not an expert on photography at all but I was in the shutter bug club in middle school and part of H.S. and took photo's for local events for the Star's and Stripes when I lived in Ft. Benning and in Germany! So I do know a little bit about photography but am not at all a subject matter expert on it!!! In fact one of my cousins is trying to get me back into the hobby.

We also do not know the finish of this cam to start with. What I mean is that roller cam are often finished even more polished then that. Anytime you have a cam follower or a bucket and shim set up you will always get polishing of the friction surfaces over time. What looks like scuffing on the lower parts of the lobes could easily be chemical pattern from additives and surface rust and might actually wipe off. If it was more aggressive and not with so much glare I might agree with you but in this case I am going to give it a pass. In fact I have seen VQ engines that had almost all of their valve train micro polished or 00000 finsh to reduce friction.
 
Hi guys, I may be able to help clarify some questions you have. This is my engine you guys are talkin about. :)

group31enginebay.jpg


The OP was mostly correct, it is a 3rz in a 1997 tacoma. pictures were taken at 184k miles, the valve cover was off for a valve adjust.(first one!) the truck has about 204k miles on it now...It has been treated to regular oil changes with mobil-1 5w30 synthetic and oem filter, along with frequent oem air filter replacement.

The cam lobes are all smooth and shiny on the tips, and no steps, marks or irregular wear was evident. the one pictures does look like a groove but Its just a reflection. (unless I'm not seeing what some of you are?)

The truck has been very well cared for, but not driven lightly. Im very pleased with the condition of the engine considering its use!

rockcandy2.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Merkaba55

The cam lobes are all smooth and shiny on the tips, and no steps, marks or irregular wear was evident. the one pictures does look like a groove but Its just a reflection.


I'm glad you chimed in as the picture did look like irregular wear indeed.
 
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Originally Posted By: Crustacean
Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
Engine looks remarkably clean of stains and varnish, but the cam lobe noses also look remarkably similar to the Seq IV-A failure and NOTHING like the pass photos. Mileage has been taken into account.

http://www.swri.org/4org/D08/GasTests/ivatest/default.htm

That's a lot of shine, with what looks like slowly polished lateral impact marks. Yikes!

Good eye. you must be a real expert on these oil matters.


Well I wouldnt call myself an expert, but I do have a bit of engine building experience. If you'll notice the ramps on the cam still look like a picture perfect pass, it's just at highest stress point, can you see evidence of an instantaneous breakdown of both hydrodynamic and boundary lubrication...and it looks quite severe. To think this will happen on a mild/stock spring rate and cam profile
crazy2.gif



I agree 100%. Shiny cam lobes are not normal and are an indication of abnormal wear.

I think what we have here is an engine that is very clean for the mileage but the amount of wear is unknown.
 
Think about what happens if the cam is slightly worn. (After 184k miles), you can't expect everything to be pristine. The valves are still getting pushed in probably to within acceptable tolerance limits.

It's not like the cams look like this.
DSC00896.jpg
 
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Originally Posted By: BuickGN


I agree 100%. Shiny cam lobes are not normal and are an indication of abnormal wear.I think what we have here is an engine that is very clean for the mileage but the amount of wear is unknown.


Could you clarify this statement? there are no "marks" or anything on the lobes. they're all just smooth like glass where the tips touch the lifter buckets. the shiney is a by product of polishing by rubbing with minimal friction, vs scoring or pitting, from a more abrasive contact, no?
 
Originally Posted By: gmchevroletruck
what in the....happened there?! (the cam in that pic)...


I would surmise epic failure......
 
That engine looks awesome!!!!! If I`m seeing it right,it looks like the factory cross-hatch marks are still on the camshaft. Looks perfect to me.
 
Originally Posted By: gmchevroletruck
what in the....happened there?! (the cam in that pic)...


Cheap cam production. I don't think oil grade was the issue.
 
Looks like a clean well maintained engine to me. As far as how well it held up in the wear dept, tear down and measurement would be the only way to determine that.
 
I can attest to the cleanliness and lack of wear on the engine, I've seen it. There is absolutely no abnormal wear like was trying to be indicated earlier in the thread. You could eat off the SOB.
 
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