Redux: 0w-20 - Toyota vs Mobil1

[santov]

So I've been doing research on oils, OCI etc. for our new Prius V(an). I share the same powertrain as G3 Prii, so I'm focusing on those, instead of Gen2 since they used 5w-30, then the Prius debacle forced Toyota into offering 2 years maintenance.

Most of the threads were talking about oils for GenII Prii or SM oils. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2390341#Post2390341

Holy cow! Sombody went 25k on Amsoil in a Gen3-
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2084106

Luckily Critic did most of the recent footwork. Thanks Critic, I've read most of your recent Prius posts (there's alot).

So a few thoughts:
Unless someone convinces me Toyota is superior I'll go M1 since I like the brand and prefer to support them over my local Toyota dealer. WalMart has the M1 0w-20 Advanced Fuel Economy for $25 a jug. $5 @ qt is tough to beat for ANY full syn.

My questions:
Should I install a magnetic drain plug? Cheap ebay ones are $8, the GoldPlug is $18. I know magnetic plugs are a great idea, but I don't want to create any sealing problems when using OEM washers.

Can I use my last 3 cases of M1 0w-40? Being in California we'll get a few days of 30F this winter and a few days of 100F+, so I don't think I'll be using the full range of this oil. I may just save this for neighbors BMW. It's too good to flush for short intervals.

I'm planning on oil change at 1k to flush break-in materials and then letting the dealer do the 10k oil changes and I do the 5k oil changes. Seems like around 10k oils are doing just fine, but silica and aluminum build up. At ~$30 an oil change I don't mind a shorter OCI.

Lastly Critic I'm going to start researching tranny fluid changes. Every 15k?

Feedback is appreciated!

 

[HTSS_TR]

First, if you don't need 0W40 then try to exchange your 3 cases at Walmart for 4-5 jugs AFE 0W20. Walmart only has 0W40 in quart bottles and it is priced at around $6.50/qt while 5-qt jug is around $25/jug.

Second, you don't need magnetic drain plug if you do 5k OCI.

PS I saw that in your signature you have BMW Z4, M1 0W40 is perfect for that engine.

 

[buster]

Mobil 1 0w20 is a better oil than Toyota 0w20.

 

[BobsArmory]

If you are looking for a magnet you might want to look at.

http://www.shopfiltermag.com/

I am sure you can get them cheaper doing a google or amazon search. I got one a few years ago and I think I should be able to use it for the rest of my life on many other vehicles assuming I take care of it. Just a thought.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 is a better oil than Toyota 0w20.


How is it better?

 

[friendly_jacek]

1. No need to do early oil changes in modern motors.
2. 0W40 will produce a huge drop in fuel efficiency and may invalidate warranty in an unlikely scenario some engine issues surface.
3. Many believe toyota 0W20 is superior, especially for fuel efficiency.
4. Magnetic drain is a nice gimmick, mostly for judging amount of wear without UOA. Has no major impact on engine longevity etc.
5. I'm planning to do 30,000 mile ATF service in my Prius (have 21,000 so far).

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 is a better oil than Toyota 0w20.


Nope!

 

[Hermann]

My Tacoma which is spec'ed for 0w-20 have never run better, sounded better, and the truck just seemed to like Mobil 1 AFE 0w-20. It will get a fresh batch in a few weeks for winter. Plan to run it 10k as the UOA was near perfect and lots of TBN left after 5K. My warranty is now up so I am going to quit wasting oil.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 is a better oil than Toyota 0w20.

How is it better?

I'm surprised Buster would claim this.

The Toyota 0W-20 was specifically designed for the Prius and is clearly the ideal engine lubricant. M1 AFE 0W-20 is quite an old formulation now, and while a quality oil, it's much lower 173 VI and lower levels of AW additives makes it no longer a first choice oil.

 

[Hounds]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 is a better oil than Toyota 0w20.


How is it better?

Much prettier bottle.

 

[HTSS_TR]

May be Buster means M1 AFE 0W20 is cheaper than Toyota 0W20, especially M1 is usually on sale once or twice a quarter at one of the auto parts chains, or it's only $25 for 5 quart jugs at WM every day, while Toyota is around $7-8/qt at dealer.

 

[Hounds]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 0w20 is a better oil than Toyota 0w20.

How is it better?

I'm surprised Buster would claim this.

The Toyota 0W-20 was specifically designed for the Prius and is clearly the ideal engine lubricant. M1 AFE 0W-20 is quite an old formulation now, and while a quality oil, it's much lower 173 VI and lower levels of AW additives makes it no longer a first choice oil.

FWIW, I agree with you that TM/Idemitsu's 0W-20 weight oil was specifically designed for Toyota's Prius, and that it clearly is the ideal engine lubricant for that application -- i.e., use in a relatively low-rpm Sterling-cycle engine subject to repeated cold- and semi-warm re-starts, particularly in uniquely cold climates such as you experience on a routine basis. On the other hand, whether TM's 0W-20 has any special or additional benefits over M1's 0W-20 in a Otto-cycle engine operated primarily below the 50th parallel is really speculation which many years of UOAs have yet to substantiate.

 

[buster]

From a pure fuel efficiency stand point, I think the TGMO is better, but in overall performance, Mobil 1 AFE is better.

If you were to subject these two oils in extreme testing - Seq IIIG, TEOST, IVA, MRV and oxidation stability, most likely the Mobil 1 product would be superior.

 

[asharris7]

Ford vs Chevy

 

[Indydriver]

XOM reduces AW in its AFE oils, presumably for fuel efficiency:

M1 Grade/Phos/Zinc (specs)

0W-40/1000/1100
5W-20/800/900
5W-30/800/900
0W-20/650/750
0W-30/650/750

I don't have TGMO in front of me but Honda Genuine Full Syn after 6400 miles of use is:

0W-20/739/873

So, for protection, M1 AFEs are clearly not the most fortified oils on the market.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Hounds

FWIW, I agree with you that TM/Idemitsu's 0W-20 weight oil was specifically designed for Toyota's Prius, and that it clearly is the ideal engine lubricant for that application -- i.e., use in a relatively low-rpm Sterling-cycle engine subject to repeated cold- and semi-warm re-starts, particularly in uniquely cold climates such as you experience on a routine basis. On the other hand, whether TM's 0W-20 has any special or additional benefits over M1's 0W-20 in a Otto-cycle engine operated primarily below the 50th parallel is really speculation which many years of UOAs have yet to substantiate.


You are correct, except for the Sterling cycle part.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: buster
From a pure fuel efficiency stand point, I think the TGMO is better, but in overall performance, Mobil 1 AFE is better.

If you were to subject these two oils in extreme testing - Seq IIIG, TEOST, IVA, MRV and oxidation stability, most likely the Mobil 1 product would be superior.


Again, how do you know that?

 

[Rand]

so how would you rate the honda full syn 0w20 vs toyota 0w20 vs subaru 0w20?

or just get the cheapest one?

I can get the toyota for 5.90, subaru for 7.xx and havent priced the honda.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: buster
From a pure fuel efficiency stand point, I think the TGMO is better, but in overall performance, Mobil 1 AFE is better.

If you were to subject these two oils in extreme testing - Seq IIIG, TEOST, IVA, MRV and oxidation stability, most likely the Mobil 1 product would be superior.


Again, how do you know that?


I don't know that for certain, I'm simply basing it on my opinion. It is just an opinion. Two key reasons. 1. Mobil 1, despite the trash talking, is always up to date in using the latest and greatest additives/base oils. 2. It's their flagship product.

If anything, the qualities of TGMO are on par with Mobil Super 0w20, not Mobil 1. At the ver most Mobil 1, and not EP/AFE.

UOA's are limted and a high VI doesn't tell you the entire story. Just common sense.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Rand
so how would you rate the honda full syn 0w20 vs toyota 0w20 vs subaru 0w20?

or just get the cheapest one?

I can get the toyota for 5.90, subaru for 7.xx and havent priced the honda.

My local Honda dealer has M1 0W20, they don't carry Honda 0W20 for too high the price. Personally, my first choice is Toyota at $5.90, next is M1 AFE for $5.