10w30 SO WRONG???

High Plains Drifter · Mar 20, 2005

Tim Ferguson To address the 5w-20 question, I am running Pennzoil 10w-30 in my 04' F150 and it calls for 5w-20. No problems.

Blue99 your post gets my vote for Post of the Year. Nice to see some good ole' commom sense being used.

Drew99GT · Mar 20, 2005

Well, 10w-30 is the recomended grade to use in my car so that's what I use. I still go with 5w-30 in winter because it does go below 0 from time to time.

Greggy_D · Mar 20, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by crossbow:
In 10 years...this same thread will pop up, and it'll be about people asking if they can run 5w-20 instead of the 0w-5 their engine specs during the summer.

That is SO true.

farrarfan1 · Mar 20, 2005

The operating temperature for Havoline conventional is 10.8 cst for both the 5-30 and the 10-30 at 100c. The point I was trying to make is that even at ambient temperatures around 50 or 60 the 5W is going to get into the top of the engine quicker.The numbers on the chart prove that. Is it enough to matter? Who knows.I'm sure someone can estimate how much difference there is between a cst of 165 and 216. If it's a car that sees a lot of cold starts it might be enough to matter. Since they both reach the same viscosity at operating temp why not go with the one that provides a little extra (possible) protection at startup.If shearing is a concern then run a synthetic.

MULESKINNER · Mar 21, 2005

Okay. So what should I be using in my new 04 4.7 V8 Toyota Tundra? Toyota calls for 5-30 dino. I use 5-30 Mobile one synthtic now. Should I switch to 10-30 Mobile One? I live in the high desert of So California.

It gets real cold in the winter,(most nights around 30, some down in the teens) but summer heat is normally around 90 to 110 degrees in the daytime, with 50 to 60 degrees at night.

Most of my driving is at highway speeds, with no trips under 20 miles.

mechtech · Mar 21, 2005

Tim Ferguson - You don't have to be an engineer to quote one, and could likely have more experience than one , despite Tom Jones 76's lofty perspective.
There are engines with variable valve timing that are controlled by oil pressure that wouldn't operate correctly with the heavier cold weight, until warmed up. Also, why not have the lowest cold rating oil you can get [for good flow when you need it the most]? It doesn't have to be below freezing to experience benefits.

andrews · Mar 21, 2005

Good point mechtech! Makes sense that the added benefit of a lower cold starting weight would preclude any worries about shearing....unless you want to run the oil for a hugely extended drain interval. Hot weather or cold, the faster an oil flows to the upper reaches of the engine, the better chance of lower wear upon start up.

crossbow · Mar 21, 2005

In 10 years...this same thread will pop up, and it'll be about people asking if they can run 5w-20 instead of the 0w-5 their engine specs during the summer.

kreativ · Mar 21, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by MULESKINNER:
Okay. So what should I be using in my new 04 4.7 V8 Toyota Tundra? Toyota calls for 5-30 dino. I use 5-30 Mobile one synthtic now. Should I switch to 10-30 Mobile One? I live in the high desert of So California.

Doesn't the Toyota owner's manual already say you can use 10w-30 in temperatures >0 degrees C?

jorton · Mar 21, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by andrews:
Good point mechtech! Makes sense that the added benefit of a lower cold starting weight would preclude any worries about shearing....unless you want to run the oil for a hugely extended drain interval. Hot weather or cold, the faster an oil flows to the upper reaches of the engine, the better chance of lower wear upon start up.

I would give start up wear top priority for OHC and DOHC engines, and shearing top priority for pushrod engines. Never have any start up noises from my v6 pushrod motor using 10w-30.

The filter is even more important than the winter number. If you have start up noise try different filters until you find one that works.

Joe

ToyotaNSaturn · Mar 21, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by MULESKINNER:
Okay. So what should I be using in my new 04 4.7 V8 Toyota Tundra? Toyota calls for 5-30 dino. I use 5-30 Mobile one synthtic now.

The answer for which Mobil 1 is better, 5w-30 or 10w-30 is ...it doesn't matter. They're both excellent oils in a Toyota 4.7L engine. You can run either safely to 7500 miles. Or even longer than that if a UOA shows good things after the 7500 mile point.

Toyota's 4.7L and 1.8L engines are easy on oil. You have a winner on your hands!

ToyotaNSaturn · Mar 21, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Blue99:

Due to the temperature differential, my start-up viscosity with the 5W-30 is 573 cSt. Timothy’s 10W-30 start-up viscosity is 389 cSt. His 10W-30 is actually thinner than my 5W-30 due to the temperature.

So these statements regarding always use a 0W or 5W for start-up protection fall apart, as the reasoning fails to factor in the effects of temperature on viscosity.

Excellent point! In weather above 50F or so, it just doesn't matter if it's 0w, 5w, 10w, or 15w. Unless utmost MPG is a factor of course...

I doubt you'll see any extra valve train wear with a 15w compared to a 5w in most applications in summer weather. If this were the case, than most vehicles in Austrailia running 25w-70 would have imploded by now. In summertime weather, use the oil you WANT to use. In winter, well, those 0w and 5w ratings are the way to go...

mechtech · Mar 21, 2005

Warmer 10-30 is thinner than the cooler 5-30 [when you bias the temps to show this], but why not have the added flow of the 5? At the SAME start up temp, it will flow better.
Start up is where most of an engine's wear occurs, and it would be good to minimise the wear by better flow.
I see no disadvantage to better start up flow.

farrarfan1 · Mar 21, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by mechtech:
Warmer 10-30 is thinner than the cooler 5-30 [when you bias the temps to show this], but why not have the added flow of the 5? At the SAME start up temp, it will flow better.
Start up is where most of an engine's wear occurs, and it would be good to minimise the wear by better flow.
I see no disadvantage to better start up flow.

Thank you. That's exactly the point I was trying to make.

Blue99 · Mar 21, 2005

quote:

Start up is where most of an engine's wear occurs, and it would be good to minimise the wear by better flow.

I can certainly agree with this statement on a theoretical level, but then the practical side of me takes over & wonder's what are the actual numbers?

At what viscosity, in centistokes, does the oil not flow fast enough and generate start-up wear?
And what is the time differential? Is it seconds or tenths of a second? (BTW - I believe the latter)

Here's another example:

It's springtime and a Friday morning in Wisconsin. At 6:30 AM, it's 32 degrees, and I start up my vehicle, outside, with 5W-30 at a viscosity of 573 cSt.

The next day, Saturday, I head out to the hardware store at 10:30 AM. It's 59 degrees and the viscosity is 218 cSt.

So, with the Friday start-up at 573 cSt, did I expose my engine to slower flow and generate more wear?

Is start-up viscosity limited to a narrow range?

If thinner is better, do I need to buy a block heater and run it year round to avoid slow flow & start-up wear?

mikemc · Mar 21, 2005

The main reason most folks seem to dislike 5w30 is due to its shearing down to a 20 weight over time. Maybe a shear stable 5w30 would be the best choice for year round use?

ToyotaNSaturn · Mar 22, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:
I wouldn't run any 10w-30 dino below 0F personally.

I WOULD use M1 10w-30 down to 0°F without any worries. M1 10w-30 is probably good down to -10°F as it's PAO roots will show better cold flow than a dino at that same temp.

Timothy Ferguson · Mar 22, 2005

What about long term affect on a 5w20 speced engine? You know most of us that like to keep our cars for an extended period of time like say 10 to 20 years how is the engine going to last if you run the 10w30 comapared to running the 5w20? Piston ring, compression, oil leaks, or any other premature wear problems?

andrews · Mar 22, 2005

I'm a novice here, but if the wear numbers (metals etc.) are good from an oil analysis of 5w-20, what would indicate that any engine would be worse off than using 10w-30 over the same time span?

TomJones76 · Mar 22, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Timothy Ferguson:
What about long term affect on a 5w20 speced engine? You know most of us that like to keep our cars for an extended period of time like say 10 to 20 years how is the engine going to last if you run the 10w30 comapared to running the 5w20? Piston ring, compression, oil leaks, or any other premature wear problems?

I can't recall having seen a used oil analysis or any other evidence showing that 5W30 or 10W30 in warm enough climes have ever damaged a Ford engine specced for 5W20.
I saw a claim by a Ford dealer tech on flatratetech's discussion forums that 10W30 in colder climes "caused the oil filter to balloon out due to excess pressure."
I don't know if I buy his claim, but I mention it for sake of completeness.
I've also heard the claim that Honda's VTEC engines depend on 5W20 to operate properly. As I am ignorant of VTEC, I will make no comment, but would imagine that the biggest danger posed by a 10W30 to a VTEC-enabled powerplant would be at lower temperatures.

10w30 SO WRONG???

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