0w-8 has gone mainstream. M1 AFE 0w-8.

JavierH19 said:
It's not until it happens in our back yard is when we say "not in my back yard" ;)

Besides in japan the amount of miles driven on average is low and most don't own their car for too long because of their old car tax and the really high inspection costs making it more sensible to replace cars more frequently so nothing wears out drivetrain wise with those really thin oils.
Click to expand...
Ahhh yes, there’s always a reason why the 0w-whatever is still “way too thin,” and we would see mass failures if only…. Here in the ‘States, we’ve had almost THIRTY YEARS for the xw-20 oils to start killing engines en masse, and we still haven’t seen it. And again, it’s not a matter of good and evil. 0w-8 in a car that calls for 15w-50 is a really bad IDEA, in a car for which it has been tested and validated, not a problem. Will it kill such a car to use a more viscous oil? Likely not unless taken to extremes. Amazing that this debate has lived on for nearly thirty years.
 
Rmay635703 said:
Actually they have been shipping and using lighter than 0w16 oil for over a decade

————////////////—————-/-

Viscosity at 100c / 40c:

Mobile One 0w20 - 8.7 / 44.8
Ravenol 0w16 - 7.2 / 38.4
Honda Green Oil - 8.2 / 32.1
Honda NEXT oil - 5.1 / 20.8 (Blackstone Analysis)

Ravenol 0w16 is ~17% thinner than Mobile One 0w20 when hot, and 14% thinner when cold.

Green Oil appears to be roughly a thin 20 weight when hot but a good bit thinner for cold starts. There's no naming convention for oils thinner than zero-weight, so I'm not sure what you'd call it.

NEXT oil is ~30% thinner than Ravenol 0w16 when hot and ~45% thinner when cold, which certainly doesn't look like 0w16 to me.
———————

The question is how do the 0w8’s hold up to Hondas NEXT oil that was stock fill around 2016-2018 having a lower than ZERO weight winter rating
Click to expand...
The lower limit for the 0W Winter grade is 3.8cSt, which all of those oils are above. Ergo, Honda NEXT carries the same 0W-xx Winter grade as M1 0W-40 does, it's a very broad range.

Now, somebody produces an oil below 3.8cSt? Then we have a discussion in regards to what that means in terms of the Winter grading system.

SAE J300 Current.webp
 
JavierH19 said:
Besides in japan the amount of miles driven on average is low and most don't own their car for too long because of their old car tax and the really high inspection costs making it more sensible to replace cars more frequently so nothing wears out drivetrain wise with those really thin oils.
Click to expand...
Plus there aren't many miles of high speed highways in Japan. Most vehicles there are driven around in a benign manner in city environments. But I'd bet the Tokyo drift guys smoking tires at redline aren't using real thin oils.
 
JavierH19 said:
I have no idea how long this has been available but walmart is already selling M1 AFE 0w-8 directly and at a reasonable price. There's only one review from feb 10.

Here's the info on mobil's site. I'm surprised to see tbn listed and it being 9 as well. With a vii of 144 and that kv 40 and 100 spread it must be majority pao.

The second image with red is motul 0w-8. Seeing hths in the 1's will never not be uncomfortable.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-...otor-Oil-0W-8-5-Quart/5040310278?from=/search

View attachment 208221


View attachment 208222
Click to expand...
Any chance of finding the specs for TGMO 0W-8 oil?
 
AL-Shooey said:
Any chance of finding the specs for TGMO 0W-8 oil?
Click to expand...
Haven't found anything yet as in a pds. It's not identical to mobil even though tgmo is bottled in a mobil bottle and mobil was one of the first to come out with it so one would assume they'd be the same but apparently not. Not like it matters, If it can use 0w-8 you can use up to 10w-30. I'd never use this oil if I had something that suggested it. I'd use no less than 0w-20 but I'd probably use 5w-30 knowing me.

These are ripped from reports on the web.

Tgmo 0w-8
1082 calcium
328 magnesium
21 boron
910 zinc
728 phos
756 moly

Mobil 0w-8
664 calcium
743 magnesium
114 boron
931 zinc
706 phos
857 moly



Screenshot 2025-02-03 143555.webp


Screenshot 2025-02-03 143953.webp
 
Last edited:
JavierH19 said:
Haven't found anything yet as in a pds. It's not identical to mobil even though tgmo is bottled in a mobil bottle and mobil was one of the first to come out with it so one would assume they'd be the same but apparently not. Not like it matters, If it can use 0w-8 you can use up to 10w-30. I'd never use this oil if I had something that suggested it. I'd use no less than 0w-20 but I'd probably use 5w-30 knowing me.

These are ripped from reports on the web.

Tgmo 0w-8
1082 calcium
328 magnesium
21 boron
910 zinc
728 phos
756 moly

Mobil 0w-8
664 calcium
743 magnesium
114 boron
931 zinc
706 phos
857 moly



View attachment 264819

View attachment 264820
Click to expand...
What year is that manual from? Is that this year's 1.5 Yaris Cross hybrid?

I have a 2022 polaris labs oil analysis report from a sample at the Poznan factory in Poland.

Molly 821
Antimony 5
Boron 1
Magnesium 415
Calcium 1208
Barium 2
Phos 706
Zinc 790.
Viscosity @40 24.4
Viscosity @100 5.0
Acid no. Koh 1.85
Oxidation 6
Nitration 3.
Base no. 6.95

Very similar to Mobil 1. However, base no
Is much lower than .obil 1. By 2 points.
Best wishes
 
AL-Shooey said:
What year is that manual from? Is that this year's 1.5 Yaris Cross hybrid?

I have a 2022 polaris labs oil analysis report from a sample at the Poznan factory in Poland.

Molly 821
Antimony 5
Boron 1
Magnesium 415
Calcium 1208
Barium 2
Phos 706
Zinc 790.
Viscosity @40 24.4
Viscosity @100 5.0
Acid no. Koh 1.85
Oxidation 6
Nitration 3.
Base no. 6.95

Very similar to Mobil 1. However, base no
Is much lower than .obil 1. By 2 points.
Best wishes
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry much about the tbn, a lot of labs are known to undershoot them. I think it's a 2021 yaris manual but the new dynamic force engines were announced in 2019 and began shipping in 2020. That's where I remembered hearing about the new 0w-8 Toyota was using. We've been using 0w-8 for a while in the US but europe and asia started using it a few years earlier than us. But the engine hasn't been updated yet, all of the power, economy, and other engine figures are still identical. Still toyota is no stranger to showing multiple grades, I'll post these two. If 16 can be used you can go up to 40 grade, if 20 can be used you can go up to 50 grade.


1740268519273.webp


1740268549524.webp
 
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JavierH19 said:
I wouldn't worry much about the tbn, a lot of labs are known to undershoot them. I think it's a 2021 yaris manual but the new dynamic force engines were announced in 2019 and began shipping in 2020. That's where I remembered hearing about the new 0w-8 Toyota was using. We've been using 0w-8 for a while in the US but europe and asia started using it a few years earlier than us. But the engine hasn't been updated yet, all of the power, economy, and other engine figures are still identical. Still toyota is no stranger to showing multiple grades, I'll post these two. If 16 can be used you can go up to 40 grade, if 20 can be used you can go up to 50 grade.


View attachment 264854

View attachment 264855
Click to expand...
I would not trust that rule of thumb of going higher outside engine manufactureres grades. The higher grades on Toy manuals are for extreme cases of usage and when one cannot get hold of the recommended ones. So Toyota main offices in Japan told a few years back. I have a Rav 4 diesel, 3 doors, from 2004. I never used other than 5W-30. Runs beautifully and uses a conventional 1dl every two north's. The wife runs it on her working trips which are daily and with short and long stretches, no heavy loads, by standard pretty normal. Thinner oils flow quicker and leave a hight HTHT on the top ring. I will try and find a report from an oil company on that. The viscous element these days is due to additives. Molybdnum being one factor. The full synthetic are all POs based and then every manufacturer Addis something else.
In Europe, most dealerships recommend and state it is official, but then cannot back it up, that the recomended oil is either W16 or W20. Mostly even in colder northern European countries. The reason is a cost and usage. 0W20 is far cheaper than W8... workshops by bulk and make a compromise between W8 and higher to accommodate all models. Actually this just happened to me recently on my first paid through a maintenance contract of 3 years service. We only have W20. So they had to order it. And I am still not sure if they really placed W8. They showed me bottles, one full, later 2 empty.. then they obver filked it. hmmm. I wonder. Hence the fact that I am refilling it with better W8 oil.
 
JavierH19 said:
I wouldn't worry much about the tbn, a lot of labs are known to undershoot them. I think it's a 2021 yaris manual but the new dynamic force engines were announced in 2019 and began shipping in 2020. That's where I remembered hearing about the new 0w-8 Toyota was using. We've been using 0w-8 for a while in the US but europe and asia started using it a few years earlier than us. But the engine hasn't been updated yet, all of the power, economy, and other engine figures are still identical. Still toyota is no stranger to showing multiple grades, I'll post these two. If 16 can be used you can go up to 40 grade, if 20 can be used you can go up to 50 grade.


View attachment 264854

View attachment 264855
Click to expand...
Excuse me my typing erros. I have thickish fingers and bad eyes on a smartphone. My apologies.
 
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