0W-16 Strength & Durability

[wpod]

It's amazing how often this is overlooked, and even argued against. Under high heat and high speed conditions, 0W-16 is not going to cause your engine to "blow up". But the fact is there are better, and God forbid I say the word thicker oils that will do a better job, and give better protection under those conditions...... Even the manual says it.

It can't be so !

 

[PimTac]

Same here. Not much call for 0W-16 in the middle of the desert.

So if I drive down your way I should change my oil?

 

[andyd]

In order to appease the wife-god, I'm suiting up to change oil per the OLM after I run a few errands to warm up the SE. It tripped because it is set to trip after 5K miles. I grit my teeth as I pour the 0W20 into it. They were out of STP so I bought Castrol instead,

 

[wemay]

Here's an example of a 0W-20 showing equal wear protection to 5W-40 etc or, 2.6 HTHS vs 3.5. Both are VW specs so conform to Lubrizol's comparison disclaimer. As an aside, there are other VW approvals in the 3.5 range that show even less protection than this 2.6. Let's not even mention the better MPG which shows a vast difference.

Full disclosure: The latest VW approvals requiring 3.5HTHS show better protection than any other before them.

 

[2005jettatdi]

So if I drive down your way I should change my oil?

There is a big difference between living in a high heat area and driving through one. However, in your case I will recommend changing to 5w30 before driving here and back to 0w-16 immediately after getting home. I am not sure why you ask since you indicate you use 5w-20.

 

[4wd]

Here's an example of a 0W-20 showing equal wear protection to 5W-40 etc or, 2.6 HTHS vs 3.5. Both are VW specs so conform to Lubrizol's comparison disclaimer. As an aside, there are other VW approvals in the 3.5 range that show even less protection than the 2.6. Let's not even mention the better MPG which shows a vast difference.

Full disclosure: The latest VW approvals requiring 3.5HTHS show better protection than any other before them.


View attachment 83436

Mr May … did you get a flak-jacket for Christmas ?

 

[PimTac]

There is a big difference between living in a high heat area and driving through one. However, in your case I will recommend changing to 5w30 before driving here and back to 0w-16 immediately after getting home. I am not sure why you ask since you indicate you use 5w-20.

I don’t use 5w20

 

[Hermann]

Geez - what percentage of vehicles have 0W16 in the pan?

Mine does. I am sure it is less than 1%. That is why I was able to buy Castrol Edge 0w-16 for $2 qt. Just not enough demand and corporations hate dead stock.
As neither a Thickhead or a Thinhead what would you put in my newest generation Toyota Hybrid?

I bought on price, to dump the factory fill at around 3K. One problem I haven't driven anywhere since last Friday. Stocked up on Friday for the cold snap and the mysterious snow scare but it never snows. Went out for lunch on Tuesday with the GF, she drove and I had the opportunity to be chauffered. she is a alien. We got there quickly.

 

[MolaKule]

The HTHS of 0W-16 (and thinner) oil is below what is generally considered the minimum needed for reasonable engine protection. I think the minimum HTHS for good protection is considered to be around 2.6, and the 0W-16 oils are around 2.3 (and please correct me if I'm mistaken).

What techniques, additives, and base stocks are needed for such a thin oil to provide adequate engine protection over a wide variety of conditions and a period of many years? What elements of engine design are important to help the oil do its job? How is oil dilution dealt with? Seemingly, 0W-16 is doing an acceptable job for some engines. How do they do it?

In the first paragraph you made a comment with a stated opinion.

In the second paragraph you asked four questions. I would like to address the first question.

For any engine design, a mechanical engineering group will assess the overall design with considerations for many aspects of the design including materials, operational parameters, and acceptable wear over time (longevity).

The engineering group will then work with lubricant engineers and or formulators to produce a formulation to meet the requirements.

The lubricant engineers and or formulators will then select the necessary base oils and DI additive packages in the formulation to be tested in the actual hardware. This is an iterative process that is expensive and highly proprietary.

 

[Hall]

For any engine design, a mechanical engineering group....

You forgot to preclude that with "then the accounting folks will override everything in the interest of saving money"

 

[4wd]

Mine does. I am sure it is less than 1%. That is why I was able to buy Castrol Edge 0w-16 for $2 qt. Just not enough demand and corporations hate dead stock.
As neither a Thickhead or a Thinhead what would you put in my newest generation Toyota Hybrid?

I bought on price, to dump the factory fill at around 3K. One problem I haven't driven anywhere since last Friday. Stocked up on Friday for the cold snap and the mysterious snow scare but it never snows. Went out for lunch on Tuesday with the GF, she drove and I had the opportunity to be chauffered. she is a alien. We got there quickly.

0W20 is a summer option ?

 

[wemay]

Mr May … did you get a flak-jacket for Christmas ?

Hey, it's there for all to see. Even for those who have used this comparison tool in the past to illustrate how much better thicker oils are where wear is concerned.
And don't pigeon hole me into being a defender of thin or thick. I think these arguments are juvenile.

 

[sk_pete]

https://carfromjapan.com/article/industry-knowledge/owning-a-car-in-japan/ hm

Geez - what percentage of vehicles have 0W16 in the pan?

better question is what are the average miles and age.

 

[Hermann]

0W20 is a summer option ?

I was thinking about stirrin' up some 0w-25 in the future. I can hear the Purring of the engine right now.

 

[ZeeOSix]

They had a good reason, I'm sure. I read it was said to reduce warranty claims. It made perfect sense to me although we'll never know for sure. One thing I am sure of, it wasn't to increase mpg or get CAFE credits. So common sense tells me Ford discovered 5W30 was the better oil for those engines or they would have never changed it from 5W20.

I recall a thread that talked about when the Coyote was being developed where Ford engineers wanted to spec 5w30 for the Coyote based on engine testing, but of course the engineers were over-ridden by the CAFE side of the equation. BTW, Ford has always speced 5w30 for the Coyote equipped Mustang in Australia.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So the engine will wear out sooner if driven on thinner oils. Blow up, wear out, not sure if there is a difference here?

There's a big difference between "blowing-up" and having more wear. Engine A may still "run good" but be more worn out than engine B (more ring wear, less compression and less power), but most people sitting behind the wheel driving them both probably couldn't tell a difference unless they were doing some WOT driving (which 99% of people don't do). Engine A may also burn more oil as a result of more ring/cylinder wear, or sound more noisy due to larger parts clearances due to more wear.

Obviously, it would take a lot of miles to see the effects of some added wear from using low viscosity oil vs using a higher viscosity oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Can we stop using race engines as examples both for and against the use of thin oil viscosities? Yes, a 0W-3 or 8 is used by race teams in high horsepower race engines, but they also rebuild/replace those engines more times than most folks would change the oil in their car. Top Fuel dragsters get a rebuilt engine after every single run.

Those engines also don't have high oil temperatures ... so if you looked at what the actual viscosity of the oil is for that 1/4 mile it's a lot thicker than it would be at 200+ F. The actual oil viscosity is probably more like around 30 or 40 is at 200-225 F. They don't use thick oils because they don't want to heat up the entire engine for the run, so the way to do that is to use a much thinner oil and then make the run when the thinner oil is in a certain temperature range that gives the most HP with best protection for the 1/4 mile run.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Here's an example of a 0W-20 showing equal wear protection to 5W-40 etc or, 2.6 HTHS vs 3.5. Both are VW specs so conform to Lubrizol's comparison disclaimer. As an aside, there are other VW approvals in the 3.5 range that show even less protection than this 2.6. Let's not even mention the better MPG which shows a vast difference.

Full disclosure: The latest VW approvals requiring 3.5HTHS show better protection than any other before them.


View attachment 83436

2005 vs 2018 oil technology and formulation. It would be interesting to see the difference in the AF/AW package between those two oils. It's easier to obtain better wear protection from viscosity, especially if you don't have wear testing data for every oil on the market.

 

[nascarnation]

There's a big difference between "blowing-up" and having more wear.

For sure. My take from "tales of PickAPart" is the deadly diseases of automotive are in order of occurrence:
1)crash damage/corrosion
2)transmission failure
3)engines

I'd be interested in other views on this.

 

[kschachn]

Here's an example of a 0W-20 showing equal wear protection to 5W-40 etc or, 2.6 HTHS vs 3.5. Both are VW specs so conform to Lubrizol's comparison disclaimer. As an aside, there are other VW approvals in the 3.5 range that show even less protection than this 2.6. Let's not even mention the better MPG which shows a vast difference.

Full disclosure: The latest VW approvals requiring 3.5HTHS show better protection than any other before them.


View attachment 83436

That spider chart is still qualitative, not quantitative. For example it shows that VW 502 00 and 505 00 have the same emphasis on wear but the values in the approval requirements are different for the actual individual wear tests. Yes the differences are small but they likely are for 508 00 as well.