Those studies have been posted many times over the last few years.
0W-16 Strength & Durability
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Okay and I will take your word for it and check later.
My final position is, if the automaker calls for 0w16 or 0w20 in my engine then that is what I am going to use. I won’t second guess their recommendation until there is strong evidence that they were wrong and we haven’t seen that yet.
That's all good. My final position is if the automaker calls for 16 or 20, I go up one grade ... 20 instead of 16, and 30 instead of 20. If the automakers calls out a 30 or above, I go with that recommendation. I feel better with more HTHS and MOFT for better wear protection, and could care less about getting 0.1 more MPG.
One thing you might want to consider is what oil the manufacturer calls for in other markets that do not have CAFE requirements. Most automakers sell the same or similar vehicles with the same engine worldwide. It isn't uncommon to see them spec a 0w-20 oil in North America while spec'ing a somewhat heavier oil (0w-30 or 5w30) in much of the rest of the world.
I think it is worth noting what oil these automakers think are best suited for their engines where CAFE standards are not a consideration, taking into account what the climates are in those various areas of course.
I don’t pay attention to that sort of thing. My current vehicle specs 0w20 and that is what it gets. It runs smoothly.
This argument is just a circle back as Peppermint Patty would say.
I was just going to ask: "What would the automaker recommend for oil viscosity if there was no CAFE?"
Note that Ford bumped the recommended viscosity for their Coyote 5.0L V8 from 5W-20 to 5w30 for no apparent design difference factors. Hummm ... wonder why they did that and hurt themselves in achieving CAFE goal on one of their biggest selling engines? Possible engine wear issues perhaps - ??.
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There has been talk for a very long time that CAFE dictates the oil grade to be used and not necessarily the optimal protection of the engine.
I am sometimes unclear on whether or not we think that this is true and accurate or just hearsay that doesn't quite stand up.
I am sometimes unclear on whether or not we think that this is true and accurate or just hearsay that doesn't quite stand up.
It doesn't indicate what oil to use; it is a mileage requirement for vehicles. The mfg decides how to meet that requirement.
If CAFE dictated the oil requirement wouldn't all new cars require the same viscosity?
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Your exact wording speaks to what I was getting at.. does the requirement of CAFE influence what a manufacturer will say to use.
There, I worded it better. I apologize.
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duplicate post, apologies
wemay
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Using 2.6 vs 3.5
The difference in wear is less than that of the mpg difference, although yes a difference exists. For instance (BELOW), VW508 (0W-20 HTHS 2.6) vs VW504 (HTHS 3.5). So if the benefit of MPG is 0.1 and deemed negligible, I'd gather the same can be said for wear - to a greater degree.
Both being VW specs, the comparison is valid as per Lubrizol's disclaimer.
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I think that is exactly why they did it.
Yes, more data showing lower HTHS oil can cause more wear - it's a well know thing and said by many oil experts and shown by testing. And that was just the wear seen in the oil testing, which I doubt represents the lifetime use of an engine.
I'd much rather have the better engine protection than the sliver more MPG.
wemay
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How about, you'd much rather have negligible less wear than negligible more MPG. Both are true.
Yep ... less wear is my focus regardless of how it's described. That's the whole function of motor oil, to prevent moving parts from rubbing together and wearing.How about, you'd much rather have negligible less wear than negligible more MPG. Both are true.
That argument is unraveling as well. Plenty of countries without CAFE where many newer autos run 0w20.
Their goal is the same. To trade additional wear for a sliver more MPG.
They had a good reason, I'm sure. I read it was said to reduce warranty claims. It made perfect sense to me although we'll never know for sure. One thing I am sure of, it wasn't to increase mpg or get CAFE credits. So common sense tells me Ford discovered 5W30 was the better oil for those engines or they would have never changed it from 5W20.
Another thing that I keep hearing, is how 0W-16 is made from all of these wonderful, high quality base stocks. And how it contains all of these super advanced friction modifiers, that enhance it's lubricating qualities. Far and above what these other oils seem to possess.
If that's true then why wouldn't they include these ingredients in all of the other weight oils they offer in the same group? The fact is 0W-16 costs no more than 0W-20, 0W-30, or 5w30 quality full synthetic oils. So why would a company spend money on R & D, developing an allegedly superior product, and not use that same chemistry across it's entire product line. Especially if it was so incredibly fantastic? That makes no sense at all.
If that's true then why wouldn't they include these ingredients in all of the other weight oils they offer in the same group? The fact is 0W-16 costs no more than 0W-20, 0W-30, or 5w30 quality full synthetic oils. So why would a company spend money on R & D, developing an allegedly superior product, and not use that same chemistry across it's entire product line. Especially if it was so incredibly fantastic? That makes no sense at all.
For me the proof is in the pudding as they say. Lab results can be interesting but in the end I care about my effect as a consumer. So lets say I go out and but a 2022 Camry. I drive it for 15 years and put on 200k miles using a 0w16 oil approved by Toyota and respect the OLM. Please list me my disadvantages.
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