03 Honda CRV EX K24 - hard starting

[Carlostrece]

This being BITOG and all, I have to ask the obvious question....
....when was her last oil change?
Sometimes it's the simple things that get neglected when times are tough.

My cousin changed all her fluids and filters last July, except for the rear diff fluid. We'll change the rear diff fluid this month.

 

[Carlostrece]

If it turns but does not start in cold damp weather, that is a sighn ( could be a sign ) of the compression being too low. Piston rings stick and score the cylinder walls and that destroys compresson.

Do a compression test with a tester with the relief valve at the threaded section that goes in the spark-plug hole. At least 4 pulses when cranking at each cylinder. All cylinders should be above 130 psi.

Theres info about doing piston soaks with BG44 to free stuck piston rings to bring back compression. Basicky you pull the spsrkplugs, use a small tube and funnel to get enough to cover each piston completely, let it sit for a day and top up all cylinders so each is covered again and repeat for about 10 days, disable ignition and fuel, crank it with plugs out to remove remaining BG44 ( PUT RAGS OVER EACH SPSRK PLUG HOLE, BUT NOT INTO EACH HOLE, YOU WANT TO CATCH THE BG44 BUT NOT GET A RAG SUCKED IN, THEN CRANK IT, STOP CRANKING, PUT ABOUT 1/2 oz OF OIL IN EACH CYLINDER AND CRANK IT AGAIN WITH RAGS OVER EACH SPSRK PLUG HOLE ( THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO DO BECAUSE ITS THE OIL THAT SEALS THE RONGS TO THE CYLINDER WALLS AND WITHOUT OIL IT DEFINATELY WONT HAVE ENOUGH PRESSURE TO START ). Put in new spark plugs, put fuses for ignition and fuel pump back in, change oil and filter ( use a cheap filter for this first run ) run it for about 15 minutes and change oil and filter again using Valvoline Restore and Protect oil. And put a bottle of RedLine SI - 1 in the fuel tank next fill up AND RUN THAT TANK OF GAS UNTILL ITS REALLY LOW LIKE ONLY 1/8 LEFT, and repeat with another bottle of SI - 1 in another full tank and ran to 1/8. Repeat the SI - 1 every 5 to 10 K miles.

If your dealing with a stuck rings engine with low compression, a good cleaning like described MAY bring it around if cylinder scoring is not too bad....

All and all, if low compression is the problem this cleaning has about a 50 % chance of working. If the compression gets too low and can't be brought up, then its time for a new engine.

We can test compression, but I doubt that it's an issue because it runs fine after starting and it has not consumed/burned any oil in last 1000 miles.

It used to burn oil like a pig eats truffles, but a new PCV and new breather hose completely cured the oil consumption 6 months ago.

 

[Carlostrece]

Testing the battery is first step. You can DIY or take it somewhere and hope they do it correctly - which they pretty much can't because it needs to rest at least 30 minutes.

This one is $20 currently. Probably works? https://www.amazon.com/KONNWEI-100-2000-Automotive-Alternator-Motorcycle/dp/B08MPXGSGN/?th=1

This is the one I have - well I have 2 actually - https://www.amazon.com/ANCEL-BA101-Professional-Automotive-Motorcycle/dp/B01M0ARG3X/

At full charge and resting battery, your looking for SOH above 60%, and internal resistance below 10 milliohms absolute max, maybe more like 8.

If the battery is charged, then if you can't DIY you will likely need to find some help or take it somewhere - likely starter or possibly a corroded cable.

I bought a battery tester a year ago. Still new in box. I forgot I have it. You just reminded me. Thanks! I'm a bit forgetful because life is a daily struggle to survive and continue living independently in my home. I don't want to live in a facility. So sometimes minor details get forgotten, such as that I bought a battery tester a year ago.

 

[Carlostrece]

With ethanol in everything is that even a thing anymore?

Good point. Especially since we literally live in a rain forest and her car is parked outside in the wind, cold (30s to 40s F a lot) and lots of rain. Unlike my car which is warm and dry in a heated garage.

 

[Carlostrece]

I personally would attack the battery and starting system first. I would load test the battery. If tests good - I would do a voltage drop test on the power and ground cables. I also would like to know how much amperage the starter is pulling but that would require an amp clamp which most people dont have.

I just remembered that I have a battery tester still NIB and also have a basic electrical tester. I don't know if a basic electrical tester is enough to test the starter's amp pull? My cousin might know.

 

[Carlostrece]

From the advice in this thread combined with knowing her car has a history of insufficient maintenance and no records, I think it has multiple issues that need to be addressed.

Up till now, the only things my cousin has done on it (last summer) was change all fluids and filters and replace PCV and breather hose, and airup tires.

I'm going to start by having her pour in 12 oz of Chevron Techron Complete Fuel System Cleaner while at a gas station. Then fill up her tank with gas. I already bought a bottle of that fuel system cleaner for her because Oreilly had it on sale. It says on the bottle that it's 10x stronger (more concentrated) (after mixing 1 oz cleaner per gallon of gas) than the amount of Techron that's in a tank of Chevron gas. Plus it has other things in it that aren't in regular Techron. Hopefully that includes a gas dryer to reduce water in gas.

Next I'll have my cousin use my battery tester on the battery.

Then we'll test starter using an electrical tester. My cousin will know how to test the starter. He just hasn't had the time yet.

Then we'll tune it up and adjust valves because I'm sure those things are overdue (whether or not they're the cause of the current hard starts).

Also, I will personally listen to it start-up. Then I will know more about the problem and be better able to describe it.

 

[GSCJR]

This

Your cousin is on the right track @Carlostrece

Came back to fix the typo. Starting with the battery and working your way up, is never a bad idea. Good luck!

 

[Carlostrece]

The car diagnosed itself today while I was posting. The battery stopped working altogether. I ordered a new battery for pickup tomorrow.

I appeciate the various tuneup maintenance advice. I'm going to catch-up it's deferred/overdue maintenance, including a tune-up as I have time to do so.

 

[Carlostrece]

My cousin still thinks the starter is the underlying/root problem. He wants her to drive it with her new battery in it straight to a local shop to get the starter tested. So we'll do that tomorrow. My cousin lives 30 miles away, which is why he's not testing it himself.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I bought a battery tester a year ago. Still new in box. I forgot I have it. You just reminded me. Thanks! I'm a bit forgetful because life is a daily struggle to survive and continue living independently in my home. I don't want to live in a facility. So sometimes minor details get forgotten, such as that I bought a battery tester a year ago.

Don't worry, many of us do the same without the other issues you have to deal with.

Similar is the I know I bought it, where the F did I put it and buy a second one because I need it now.

 

[supton]

I could get behind multiple issues at the cause.

I have an '03 also and when the battery was low, that didn't seem to impact cranking. YMMV. But it didn't seem to hurt that much. But it was always a bit of a slow cranker. Then the kids reported that it would occasionally just go click. Sure enough, it finally did it for me--only it wouldn't do more than that. One reman starter and now it cranks faster, so I guess the old starter had been slowly dying for years? Did not enjoy that starter job, just seemed harder than necessary, the way things are packed in (I realize there are harder, but this is supposed to be a cheap and basic vehicle).

Starters have been drawing relatively low current for some time now, but the basics still apply: good battery, good cables. After that, plugs, injectors, etc.

Good luck.

 

[Nukeman7]

The OP should review this recent BITOG thread if it turns out to be a bad starter that needs replacement:

K24 Starter Replacement

 

[Carlostrece]

@supton

A local car electrical technician just told me this. He said...
If a car won't start...
One click is probably a starter problem.
Multiple clicks is probably a weak battery problem.
He's going to test everything thoroughly.

I still haven't personally heard anyone try to start my neighbor's CRV, but I will listen to it right after lunch.

I suspect this car likely has multiple issues due to years of neglect. My cousin and I are trying to catch up the maintenance. So far the only things we've done was change fluids and filters.

 

[Carlostrece]

Using my 30 year old charger/jump-starter my caregiver and I charged on 10A setting for 30 min, then jumped started it on 50A setting. She drove to the local car electrical expert's shop. He tested it. He says the starter is fine, but the battery is bad.

I ordered a Honda Odessey battery tray as recommended by @Nukeman7 here: Post in thread '03 Honda CR-V EX battery' https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/03-honda-cr-v-ex-battery.403594/post-7485924

Now trying to decide between battery sizes 24F and 34. Advice welcome.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

They are both about the same length/width. 24F is about 9" high, 34 is 7.5-8" high. The 51R is like 8/34" high. The original hold down might not hold the 34 without a spacer under the battery.

You also need to confirm terminal location as there is 34 and 34R. If backwards the cables may not reach.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Swap the negative battery cable to the fatter 6 cylinder cable.

 

[justalubetech]

I've seen valve clearance cause cranking issues on these engines before, had one that the valves were so tight it would crank really slowly. If starter etc checks out ok it's worth a peek.

 

[97prizm]

This is my neighbor's 03 Honda CRV. She's a sweet young lady 35 years old. I want to help her with her car because she's clueless about cars, she's poor and needs a helping hand, and she helps me a lot. I'm severely handicapped and need help often, but I do have more money than she does and I have some knowledge about cars and I'm backed up by BITOG which has many very astute members who know about cars and maintenance. Please help me with knowledge and advice so I can help her.

Her uncle is a retired ex-manager of a tire store. So I assume he knows a lot about cars, but I'm skeptical of how invested he is in helping her. He told her that her car is harder to start because the weather is cold. I'm sure that's a contributing factor, but I suspect there's more to it. It sounds to me like he blew her off as a nuisance he didn't want to deal with.

My cousin was in a hurry at the time, but he did a cursory exam. He thinks it's somehow related to the starter.

My first thought was it might need a tune-up. It has 127K miles on it. No service records. No owners manual. No maintenance manual. She has no idea if or when it was last tuned up. She's the 3rd owner.

On crvownersclub.com some guys think it's the starter or its wiring. Other guys think it needs a tune-up. There's no consensus. I suppose it could be both since 2 things can be true at the same time.

I'm curious what advice BITOG members can give me.

What's involved in a tune-up for an 03 CRV EX? Does it involve manually adjusting the valves? If so, would that be easy or difficult for my cousin to DIY at home using basic tools?

Plugs, wires, air filter, possibly battery. It sounds like the starter may be going bad as well.

 

[THORROMIG]

I figured the battery was the culprit all along. Amongst other things you mentioned that use addressed some. Throw some new plugs in the old gal once. Good for you and your Cousin looking out for your neighbor. Little things...

 

[Carlostrece]

The battery was bad. It failed a load test. It's battery posts were dirty and corroded (but not sulfated. I later learned its water level was very low, but by that time the battery was already replaced (with a more powerful 24F battery 585 CCA that I paid for).

However, even with a new, more powerful battery and freshly cleaned top terminal connections, and cleaned ground terminal at frame, it still won't turn over. There's some other (as yet undiagnosed) problem.

I'd like to tap out and suggest my neighbor have it towed to a local shop. She's poor, but her parents are middle class and her grandma is wealthy. They can step up and help her financially if need be. I've already spent as much as I'm willing to on someone else's car.

I don't know of any way to get it to a local shop (other than having it towed). I'm open to suggestions.