03 Honda CRV EX K24 - hard starting

[Carlostrece]

This is my neighbor's 03 Honda CRV. She's a sweet young lady 35 years old. I want to help her with her car because she's clueless about cars, she's poor and needs a helping hand, and she helps me a lot. I'm severely handicapped and need help often, but I do have more money than she does and I have some knowledge about cars and I'm backed up by BITOG which has many very astute members who know about cars and maintenance. Please help me with knowledge and advice so I can help her.

Her uncle is a retired ex-manager of a tire store. So I assume he knows a lot about cars, but I'm skeptical of how invested he is in helping her. He told her that her car is harder to start because the weather is cold. I'm sure that's a contributing factor, but I suspect there's more to it. It sounds to me like he blew her off as a nuisance he didn't want to deal with.

My cousin was in a hurry at the time, but he did a cursory exam. He thinks it's somehow related to the starter.

My first thought was it might need a tune-up. It has 127K miles on it. No service records. No owners manual. No maintenance manual. She has no idea if or when it was last tuned up. She's the 3rd owner.

On crvownersclub.com some guys think it's the starter or its wiring. Other guys think it needs a tune-up. There's no consensus. I suppose it could be both since 2 things can be true at the same time.

I'm curious what advice BITOG members can give me.

What's involved in a tune-up for an 03 CRV EX? Does it involve manually adjusting the valves? If so, would that be easy or difficult for my cousin to DIY at home using basic tools?

 

[Panda87]

What’s the battery state of charge after it’s been sitting for several hours? I’d start with battery SOC and terminal cleanliness/tightness.

After that, I’d look at other issues. Could well need a tune-up also.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Please define "hard to start".
If the engine cranks slowly, suspect battery (including terminals) and/or worn starter.
If it cranks strong but is difficult to start, perhaps pull a plug to inspect.

Good luck and good on you for helping your friend.

 

[Oillover]

This being BITOG and all, I have to ask the obvious question....
....when was her last oil change?
Sometimes it's the simple things that get neglected when times are tough.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Please define "hard to start".
If the engine cranks slowly, suspect battery (including terminals) and/or worn starter.
If it cranks strong but is difficult to start, perhaps pull a plug to inspect.

Good luck and good on you for helping your friend.

Exactly. Hard to start or slow cranking? Starters on these motors sound like a dead or low battery when they are dying.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

As other said, need better definition of getting slightly hard to start.

Slow cranking? No cranking? – Battery charge, terminals clean/tight, wire connections clean/tight especially ground at fender. Starter getting old/worn. Things to effect battery charge – ’03 CRV should have an ELD so unless it senses a load, the alternator will be at a lower voltage not full charging. With a lot of short trips the battery won’t have time to recover killing that slowly. Charge battery fully, maybe load test it first then charge. Have her turn her headlights on when she is driving around, it will sense load and charge at 14.4V, may still need a charge 1-2 times per year depending on use. My son’s Forte had the ground cable from battery to fender totally fuzzy inside insulation. The ground at fender was rusted, bolt snapped trying to get it out. We drilled and re-tapped to clean threads, ground some paint where it touches and use Kopr-Shield at the connections. We replaced the ground cable with new factory one. His issues went away.

Long cranking – Plugs possible, dirty injectors, low initial fuel pressure, valve adjustment. My brother-in-law’s ‘99 CRV and the ’08 that went to my daughter had same issue and needed valve adjustment around 120k. Long cranks mostly in morning but also at other times. We now just do them at about each 100-120k. My daughters ’08 is having longer crank again but only after sitting all night, no issues if not sitting at least 10 hours. Shop did fuel pressure drop test and check valve at pump is suspected leaking some. Turning key on/off a couple times or let sit a couple seconds on before crank to let pressure build seems to help. Factory pump is installed is like $900, aftermarket pumps are hit/miss from reviews. It starts everyday just cranks longer, I’ll wait to replace that.

For your neighbor get some BG44k and run at least 2 tanks. Add it, fill tank, run to at least 1/4-1/8 tank if possible and do it again. Dirty injectors and/or low pressure it won’t atomize correct and be harder to ignite.

Tune up for me is plugs (I’ve been using NGK Ruthenium in all mine for a couple years), filters air and oil with oil change. Clean MAF and TB, serpentine belt.

I’m not sure how VVT works on the CRV. If screens are clogged or other oil issues it may not get valve timing back to where it needs to be for starting. My Sonata had that with TSB’s for the valve timing solenoid. It would stick and keep timing advanced making hard start (and a CEL on that vehicle).

 

[JimPghPA]

If it turns but does not start in cold damp weather, that is a sighn ( could be a sign ) of the compression being too low. Piston rings stick and score the cylinder walls and that destroys compresson.

Do a compression test with a tester with the relief valve at the threaded section that goes in the spark-plug hole. At least 4 pulses when cranking at each cylinder. All cylinders should be above 130 psi.

Theres info about doing piston soaks with BG44 to free stuck piston rings to bring back compression. Basicky you pull the spsrkplugs, use a small tube and funnel to get enough to cover each piston completely, let it sit for a day and top up all cylinders so each is covered again and repeat for about 10 days, disable ignition and fuel, crank it with plugs out to remove remaining BG44 ( PUT RAGS OVER EACH SPSRK PLUG HOLE, BUT NOT INTO EACH HOLE, YOU WANT TO CATCH THE BG44 BUT NOT GET A RAG SUCKED IN, THEN CRANK IT, STOP CRANKING, PUT ABOUT 1/2 oz OF OIL IN EACH CYLINDER AND CRANK IT AGAIN WITH RAGS OVER EACH SPSRK PLUG HOLE ( THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO DO BECAUSE ITS THE OIL THAT SEALS THE RONGS TO THE CYLINDER WALLS AND WITHOUT OIL IT DEFINATELY WONT HAVE ENOUGH PRESSURE TO START ). Put in new spark plugs, put fuses for ignition and fuel pump back in, change oil and filter ( use a cheap filter for this first run ) run it for about 15 minutes and change oil and filter again using Valvoline Restore and Protect oil. And put a bottle of RedLine SI - 1 in the fuel tank next fill up AND RUN THAT TANK OF GAS UNTILL ITS REALLY LOW LIKE ONLY 1/8 LEFT, and repeat with another bottle of SI - 1 in another full tank and ran to 1/8. Repeat the SI - 1 every 5 to 10 K miles.

If your dealing with a stuck rings engine with low compression, a good cleaning like described MAY bring it around if cylinder scoring is not too bad.

Btw, the warmer it is when you do that piston soak with BG 44, the better it works.

Be sure all sides of all pistons are covered when soaking.

So doing it in winter cold is not going to be as effective.

All and all, if low compression is the problem this cleaning has about a 50 % chance of working. If the compression gets too low and can't be brought up, then its time for a new engine.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Testing the battery is first step. You can DIY or take it somewhere and hope they do it correctly - which they pretty much can't because it needs to rest at least 30 minutes.

This one is $20 currently. Probably works? https://www.amazon.com/KONNWEI-100-2000-Automotive-Alternator-Motorcycle/dp/B08MPXGSGN/?th=1

This is the one I have - well I have 2 actually - https://www.amazon.com/ANCEL-BA101-Professional-Automotive-Motorcycle/dp/B01M0ARG3X/

At full charge and resting battery, your looking for SOH above 60%, and internal resistance below 10 milliohms absolute max, maybe more like 8.

If the battery is charged, then if you can't DIY you will likely need to find some help or take it somewhere - likely starter or possibly a corroded cable.

 

[Nukeman7]

I'm curious what advice BITOG members can give me.

What's involved in a tune-up for an 03 CRV EX? Does it involve manually adjusting the valves? If so, would that be easy or difficult for my cousin to DIY at home using basic tools?

Like several members posted above, start by checking the health of the battery and associated wiring terminals and ground points. At 127K miles, a valve adjustment is needed as part of a basic tune-up (e.g., replace spark plugs w/NGKs, check/replace air filter, perform oil change). The exhaust valves on Honda K24 engines will tighten up, especially in the initial 100K miles. The valve adjustment procedure can be performed with a 10mm box end wrench, feeler gauges, and a flat blade screwdriver as shown in the video below (for a 2004 Element, but same process for a CR-V).

 

[himemsys]

hard to start in cold damp weather.​

Water in the fuel? Something like a bottle of HEET might be a very cheap first step.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

If it turns but does not start in cold damp weather, that is a sighn ( could be a sign ) of the compression being too low. Piston rings stick and score the cylinder walls and that destroys compresson.

Do a compression test with a tester with the relief valve at the threaded section that goes in the spark-plug hole. At least 4 pulses when cranking at each cylinder. All cylinders should be above 130 psi.

Theres info about doing piston soaks with BG44 to free stuck piston rings to bring back compression. Basicky you pull the spsrkplugs, use a small tube and funnel to get enough to cover each piston completely, let it sit for a day and top up all cylinders so each is covered again and repeat for about 10 days, disable ignition and fuel, crank it with plugs out to remove remaining BG44 ( PUT RAGS OVER EACH SPSRK PLUG HOLE, BUT NOT INTO EACH HOLE, YOU WANT TO CATCH THE BG44 BUT NOT GET A RAG SUCKED IN, THEN CRANK IT, STOP CRANKING, PUT ABOUT 1/2 oz OF OIL IN EACH CYLINDER AND CRANK IT AGAIN WITH RAGS OVER EACH SPSRK PLUG HOLE ( THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO DO BECAUSE ITS THE OIL THAT SEALS THE RONGS TO THE CYLINDER WALLS AND WITHOUT OIL IT DEFINATELY WONT HAVE ENOUGH PRESSURE TO START ). Put in new spark plugs, put fuses for ignition and fuel pump back in, change oil and filter ( use a cheap filter for this first run ) run it for about 15 minutes and change oil and filter again using Valvoline Restore and Protect oil. And put a bottle of RedLine SI - 1 in the fuel tank next fill up AND RUN THAT TANK OF GAS UNTILL ITS REALLY LOW LIKE ONLY 1/8 LEFT, and repeat with another bottle of SI - 1 in another full tank and ran to 1/8. Repeat the SI - 1 every 5 to 10 K miles.

If your dealing with a stuck rings engine with low compression, a good cleaning like described MAY bring it around if cylinder scoring is not too bad.

Btw, the warmer it is when you do that piston soak with BG 44, the better it works.

Be sure all sides of all pistons are covered when soaking.

So doing it in winter cold is not going to be as effective.

All and all, if low compression is the problem this cleaning has about a 50 % chance of working. If the compression gets too low and can't be brought up, then its time for a new engine.

Everything good except that is with Berryman's B12 Chemtool, not BG 44k.

BG44k is for the fuel tank for injectors.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Water in the fuel? Something like a bottle of HEET might be a very cheap first step.

With ethanol in everything is that even a thing anymore?

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Water in the fuel? Something like a bottle of HEET might be a very cheap first step.

BG Ethanol shield a better alternative.

I did use HEET for MANY years when I was in subzero places. I used a bottle every tank in winter, never froze up unlike many of my friends.

 

[JimPghPA]

Everything good except that is with Berryman's B12 Chemtool, not BG 44k.

BG44k is for the fuel tank for injectors.

My bad.

Thanks for the correction.

Mods, please change my previous post to recommend Berryman's B 12 Chemtool.

I tried but its too old for me to access.

 

[wlk]

This is my neighbor's 03 Honda CRV. She's a sweet young lady 35 years old. I want to help her with her car because she's clueless about cars, she's poor and needs a helping hand, and she helps me a lot. I'm severely handicapped and need help often, but I do have more money than she does and I have some knowledge about cars and I'm backed up by BITOG which has many very astute members who know about cars and maintenance. Please help me with knowledge and advice so I can help her.

Her uncle is a retired ex-manager of a tire store. So I assume he knows a lot about cars, but I'm skeptical of how invested he is in helping her. He told her that her car is harder to start because the weather is cold. I'm sure that's a contributing factor, but I suspect there's more to it. It sounds to me like he blew her off as a nuisance he didn't want to deal with.

My cousin was in a hurry at the time, but he did a cursory exam. He thinks it's somehow related to the starter.

My first thought was it might need a tune-up. It has 127K miles on it. No service records. No owners manual. No maintenance manual. She has no idea if or when it was last tuned up. She's the 3rd owner.

On crvownersclub.com some guys think it's the starter or its wiring. Other guys think it needs a tune-up. There's no consensus. I suppose it could be both since 2 things can be true at the same time.

I'm curious what advice BITOG members can give me.

What's involved in a tune-up for an 03 CRV EX? Does it involve manually adjusting the valves? If so, would that be easy or difficult for my cousin to DIY at home using basic tools?

Yes, time is due to adjust the valves. Change the plugs and probably needs the negative battery cable replaced. A corroded negative will cause a slow crank as they corrode internally.

 

[JimPghPA]

Its rare, but once I saw a slow cranking engine that had a bad starter winding. The engine still cranked but noticeably slow. It always started but the concern was it might not on a cold start when the oil was thick from being cold is when it turned the slowest. It took a while to figure that one out.

 

[GSCJR]

a bad starter winding.

This

You're cousin is on the right track @Carlostrece

 

[iCurious]

I personally would attack the battery and starting system first. I would load test the battery. If tests good - I would do a voltage drop test on the power and ground cables. I also would like to know how much amperage the starter is pulling but that would require an amp clamp which most people dont have.

 

[JeffKeryk]

If the battery is over 5 years old, or looks bad, I would highly suspect it. An easy test is to jump the battery and see how it cranks.

 

[Carlostrece]

Please define "hard to start".
If the engine cranks slowly, suspect battery (including terminals) and/or worn starter.
If it cranks strong but is difficult to start, perhaps pull a plug to inspect.

Good luck and good on you for helping your friend.

I haven't recently heard it crankup and start. I should personally listen to it. Then I could answer your question.