5w30 synthetic oil in a manual transmission

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I checked the viscosity of Pennzoil Synchromesh and Valvoline Synchromesh. Pennzoil is more in line with the Pentosin 75W80 that the Hyundai TSB calls for. As for the Valvoline Synchromesh, it's more like a 75W90, too thick for Hyundai's taste. So I think I will try the Pennzoil.
 
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The previous owner took the car back to Hyundai twice, both times they changed the MTF and sent him on his way saying the car was fine. When I bought the car with 32K miles on it, I changed the MTF out with Valvoline Synpower 5W30 Synthetic Motor Oil. The car has 62K miles on it now and it's been shifting a heck of a lot better for the past 30K miles. BTW, the MTF I drained out originally at 32K smelled like GL-5 differential gear oil, it had a very strong sulfur smell. Maybe the Hyundai mechanic put the wrong stuff in. I know how Pentosin 75W80 GL-4 smells like, and it wasn't Pentosin.
I'll change it out to Pennzoil Synchromesh and see what that does, it has the same viscosity as the Pentosin 75W80 GL-4 that the Hyundai TSB recommended.
 
Originally Posted By: dagreek
...As for the Valvoline Synchromesh, it's more like a 75W90, too thick for Hyundai's taste. So I think I will try the Pennzoil...


I don't know what Valvoline you looked at but the Valvoline MTF is approx. 9.2 cSt. I did an analysis of it posted here on BITOG.

Please don't place inaccurate information on BITOG. We have enough of that already.
smile.gif



Originally Posted By: MolaKule Post #3231394
A mechanic friend of mine wanted to know the makeup of this MTL was so I sent it along with some developmental samples of some of my own lubes. Any element less than or equal to 1 is not listed:

Valvoline Part Number 811095

Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 2
Silicon (Si) 13
Potassium (K) Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 1627
Calcium (Ca) 14
Phosphorus (P) 1492
Zinc (Zn) 1233
Boron (B)
Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 9.2
Viscosity (cSt 40C) 50.3

Base Number (mgKOH/g) 7.2

It appears that Pennzoil Synchromesh has a competitor in this viscosity range.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ran#Post3231394
 
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Originally Posted By: dagreek
I didn't say anything that was inaccurate. I obtained the information straight from the horse's mouth, click on the product data sheet link. The cSt is 14.5. http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/vps_manual_transmission_fluid.pdf


Again you need to get the facts straight: That was VPS Manual Transmission Fluid, and I have never seen it on the shelves in NA.

The Valvoline MTF and the Pennzoil Synchromesh are 9.X cSt@100C.
 
The Valvoline MTF and the Pennzoil Synchromesh are 9.X cSt@100C and are on the shelves in NA.

Quote:
When selecting an MTF, there are three main considerations:

1) Viscosity,

2) Anti-Wear (AW) additives to qualify for a GL-4 protection level,

3) Proper friction modification (FM) for smooth synchronizer assembly operation.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Again you need to get the facts straight: That was VPS Manual Transmission Fluid, and I have never seen it on the shelves in NA.

The Valvoline MTF and the Pennzoil Synchromesh are 9.X cSt@100C.


Both Valvoline Synchromesh and Valvoline Professional Series are American, NOT European. Valvoline Europe has other MTFs, Synpower GL-4, MaxLife GL-4 and Valvoline GL-4.
Valvoline only has a product sheet for the VPS, not the regular Synchromesh. The VPS is Synthetic where as the Synchromesh is Conventional.
I did get my facts straight, I've searched high and low and only found the VPS Data Sheet. I didn't know you actually did an analysis of the Synchromesh, until you referenced it.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The Valvoline MTF and the Pennzoil Synchromesh are 9.X cSt@100C.


...as is the Amsoil MTF
wink.gif



I've been debating getting the Amsoil Synchromesh, but it very strange how I look up dealers and they basically sell the stuff out of their basements.
 
Originally Posted By: dagreek
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The Valvoline MTF and the Pennzoil Synchromesh are 9.X cSt@100C.


...as is the Amsoil MTF
wink.gif



I've been debating getting the Amsoil Synchromesh, but it very strange how I look up dealers and they basically sell the stuff out of their basements.


I actually found a speed shop around here that sells the Amsoil Synchromesh 5W30 MTF. I think I'll try it since it's thin enough and is synthetic. Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: dagreek
If you read the paper that Richard Widman wrote....

Note that Richard is a member here, and might be so kind as to clarify the meaning of his words, since there seems to be a difference of opinion on that matter.
 
Originally Posted By: dagreek
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
The Valvoline MTF and the Pennzoil Synchromesh are 9.X cSt@100C.


...as is the Amsoil MTF
wink.gif



I've been debating getting the Amsoil Synchromesh, but it very strange how I look up dealers and they basically sell the stuff out of their basements.


I don't know why you find that strange. Apparently you are unaware of their marketing system.
 
I'd still like to know if I'm not grinding gears is that bad for the snycros? Looks like the Amsoil MTL is a half point lower on the cis viscosity scale.


Redline MTL
TYPICAL PROPERTIES

API Service Class GL-4
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil) 5W30
SAE Viscosity Grade (Gear Oil) 75W80
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 54.1
Viscosity Index 185
Pour Point, °C -50
Pour Point, °F -58
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 120

Amsoil Synthetic Manual Synchromesh Transmission Fluid

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 9.7
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 48.3
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270 190
Flash Point, °C (°F) 150°C Min 218 (424)
Pour Point, °C (°F) -46 (-51)
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C 39,050
 
Originally Posted By: dagreek
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Again you need to get the facts straight: That was VPS Manual Transmission Fluid, and I have never seen it on the shelves in NA.

The Valvoline MTF and the Pennzoil Synchromesh are 9.X cSt@100C.


Both Valvoline Synchromesh and Valvoline Professional Series are American, NOT European. Valvoline Europe has other MTFs, Synpower GL-4, MaxLife GL-4 and Valvoline GL-4.
Valvoline only has a product sheet for the VPS, not the regular Synchromesh. The VPS is Synthetic where as the Synchromesh is Conventional.
I did get my facts straight, I've searched high and low and only found the VPS Data Sheet. I didn't know you actually did an analysis of the Synchromesh, until you referenced it.


No you did not get your facts straight. Apparently you didn't read and understand my post.

You confused Valvoline MTF (synchromesh) with Valvoline VPS.

I clearly stated we were discussing 9.X MTF's in the range of 75W80's or 5W30's.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I'd still like to know if I'm not grinding gears is that bad for the snycros? Looks like the Amsoil MTL is a half point lower on the cis viscosity scale.


Redline MTL
TYPICAL PROPERTIES

API Service Class GL-4
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil) 5W30
SAE Viscosity Grade (Gear Oil) 75W80
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 54.1
Viscosity Index 185
Pour Point, °C -50
Pour Point, °F -58
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 120

Amsoil Synthetic Manual Synchromesh Transmission Fluid

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 9.7
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 48.3
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270 190
Flash Point, °C (°F) 150°C Min 218 (424)
Pour Point, °C (°F) -46 (-51)
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C 39,050



A half-point viscosity difference at 100C makes little difference. However, the 40C point may make a slight difference in cold weather shifting which is why you need to experiment with MTF's close to the speced viscosity range.

Quote:
I'd still like to know if I'm not grinding gears is that bad for the snycros?


I am not sure I understand this question.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
MTLs in that range did not help that much. Maybe the 5w20 M1 HM?


Again, you have worn synchro assemblies.

Quote:
Synchronizer: The locking mechanism for any individual gear consists of a collar on the shaft which is able to slide sideways so that teeth or “dogs” on its inner surface bridge two circular rings with teeth on their outer circumference; one attached to the gear, one to the shaft. (One collar typically serves for two gears; sliding in one direction selects one transmission speed, in the other direction selects the other) In our illustration from above, the bottom or output shaft has splines that mate with the synchronizer “collar.” The synchronizer collar moves transversely on the splines, positioned by the shifter fork. When the rings are bridged by the collar, that particular gear is rotationally locked to the shaft and determines the output speed of the transmission. In a synchromesh gearbox, to correctly match the speed of the gear to that of the shaft as the gear is engaged, the collar initially applies a force to a cone-shaped brass clutch which is attached to the gear, which brings the speeds to match prior to the collar locking into place. The collar is prevented from bridging the locking rings when the speeds are mismatched by synchro rings also called blocker rings. Notice, before locking and speed synchronization, a lot of shearing takes place at the interfaces and for the reasons given above. Most synchronizer materials are of brass, but newer synchronizers can be made of strengthened graphite composites. Lubricant effects: A special Friction Modifier (FM) additive is incorporated into the base oil to allow just the right amount of friction before engagement. I.E., the FM gives rise to a specific coefficient of friction (COF) to allow engagement without “crunching.” Automatic Transmission Fluids (ATF) DO NOT have these specialized FM’s. Note, the specialized FM used in manual transmissions is NOT the same FM used in Limited Slip Differentials, nor is it the same FM used in Automatic Transmissions, nor is it the same FM used in engine oils. It is important to understand that there are different FM chemistries for different automotive applications!


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1231182/2
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I'd still like to know if I'm not grinding gears is that bad for the snycros? Looks like the Amsoil MTL is a half point lower on the cis viscosity scale.


Redline MTL
TYPICAL PROPERTIES

API Service Class GL-4
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil) 5W30
SAE Viscosity Grade (Gear Oil) 75W80
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 54.1
Viscosity Index 185
Pour Point, °C -50
Pour Point, °F -58
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 120

Amsoil Synthetic Manual Synchromesh Transmission Fluid

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 9.7
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 48.3
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270 190
Flash Point, °C (°F) 150°C Min 218 (424)
Pour Point, °C (°F) -46 (-51)
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C 39,050



A half-point viscosity difference at 100C makes little difference. However, the 40C point may make a slight difference in cold weather shifting which is why you need to experiment with MTF's close to the speced viscosity range.

Quote:
I'd still like to know if I'm not grinding gears is that bad for the snycros?


I am not sure I understand this question.


Seeing as the fluid will more than likely never see 100C, I am looking more at the 40C spec. Sorry to have singled out the 100C spec.

As far as the grinding the gears question. Does grinding the gears hurt the snycros?
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
MTLs in that range did not help that much. Maybe the 5w20 M1 HM?


Again, you have worn synchro assemblies.
Which came about using the Redline MTL and MT 85.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ

As far as the grinding the gears question. Does grinding the gears hurt the snycros?


You don't "grind" gears. See post #3961799.
 
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