5w30 synthetic oil in a manual transmission

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I would use any one of the above dedicated MTF's since they have more AW chemistry than most PCMO's by a factor of 2.5.


While these products are superb in regards to wear protection, they lack proper FM to achieve desired results in this application.

ACDelco 10-4014 (Friction Modified Synchromesh) is what's needed here.


Sorry, not correct.

The Redline fluids, the Amsoil fluids, the Pennsoil Synchromesh, the Valvoline MTF, ACDelco, are ALL dedicated MTF fluids with GL-4 gear and bearing protection ratings, and ALL contain friction modification chemistry needed for the synchro essemblies.

Undoubtedly, you need to read up on manual transmissions:

Manual Transmissions and MTF's

specifically, post #3821548.

 

[SHOZ]

I've not been happy with the Redline fluids, MTL and MT 85.. They seem to be good for a week or so then the crunch comes back.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Sorry, not correct.


Undoubtedly, you need to abstain from misrepresenting my post.

Notice how I said proper FM?

For smooth operation, the M6VR necessitates additional FM beyond what those fluids can provide; hence, the guidance of ACDelco 10-4014.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Sorry, not correct.


Undoubtedly, you need to abstain from misrepresenting my post.

Notice how I said proper FM?

For smooth engagement, the M6VR necessitates additional FM beyond what those fluids can provide; hence, the recommendation of ACDelco 10-4014.



You said,
Quote:
they lack proper FM to achieve desired results in this application.


That is simply not true. All the fluids mentioned contain the proper friction modification chemistry.

ACDelco 10-4014 has no superior friction modification chemistry above the others.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
That is simply not true. All the fluids mentioned contain the proper friction modification chemistry.


They do not contain the proper FM to achieve smooth operation in this transmission; SHOZ has shown this. Believing him, or not, is between you two.

It's purely his call as to whether he wants to continuing playing around with various fluids (gear oil, various MTF's, engine oil, custom brews, etc.), or just completely dump what's in there and fill with ACDelco 10-4014 (SHOZ - this is Friction Modified Synchromesh, not the "regular" Synchromesh product. Two different products.)

Until that time, any further discussion from me is a waste.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
That is simply not true. All the fluids mentioned contain the proper friction modification chemistry.


They do not contain the proper FM to achieve smooth operation in this transmission; SHOZ has shown this. Believing him, or not, is between you two.

It's purely his call as to whether he wants to continuing playing around with various fluids (gear oil, various MTF's, engine oil, custom brews, etc.), or just completely dump what's in there and fill with ACDelco 10-4014 (SHOZ - this is Friction Modified Synchromesh, not the "regular" Synchromesh product. Two different products.)

Until that time, any further discussion from me is a waste.


Both ACDelco products contain friction modification chemistry. The newer product contains more synthetic base oils. When I said "all of the above" I was also including the ACDelco products as having the friction modification chemistry.

SHOZ has a below par transmission that may have wear problems with the internals.

Sometimes you have to experiment with various oils of near-spec viscosity, for at least 500 miles, in order to determine which oil gives the "sweet" spot with respect to cold weather shifting and smooth synchro engagement.

To SHOZ my advice still stands, try the Amsoil MTF or the Redline MTL 75W80 GL-4 Gear Oil, or any of the ACDelco products as they are 10.5 cSt dedicated MTF's with the proper AW and friction modification packages.

In fact, I state this in my MTF list:

Quote:
H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTL

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF



Yep.

Quote:
Until that time, any further discussion from me is a waste.

 

[SHOZ]

I've used the MTL. As with the MT 85 after a 1000 miles or so the shifting degrades.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I've used the MTL. As with the MT 85 after a 1000 miles or so the shifting degrades.


Then you may never find an MTF that shifts buttery smooth in this transmission.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I've used the MTL. As with the MT 85 after a 1000 miles or so the shifting degrades.


Then you may never find an MTF that shifts buttery smooth in this transmission.

Hence the thread. The 5w30 synthetic oil did wonders I'm told.

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

We await your field report.

 

[Greasymechtech]

If one brand doesn't work out for you, regardless of products, then switch brands.

Amsoil has MTF and MTG.

Pennzoil, Valvoline, Swepco, Driven, BG, Ravenol, Pentosin, Synmax, Torco, ... have MT fluids too.

Why are you hung up on Redline which is not working for you?

And, did you check with your dealer for the fluid recommendation TSB that covers various years of Genesis 2.0T and 3.8 manual transmissions?

 

[SHOZ]

I don't drive the car but 5k miles a year so it's been one swap a summer.

The dealer would be useless.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Rambleja
Originally Posted By: Ram

https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0q1bwqvIs1rqnbfjo1_250.gif[/IMG]



I can understand your frustration ....... this is a price often times one has to pay here for being too sharp.


Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
They do not contain the proper FM to achieve smooth operation in this transmission; SHOZ has shown this. Believing him, or not, is between you two.


I'm with you here.



Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
It's purely his call as to whether he wants to continuing playing around with various fluids (gear oil, various MTF's, engine oil, custom brews, etc.), or just completely dump what's in there and fill with ACDelco 10-4014 (SHOZ - this is Friction Modified Synchromesh, not the "regular" Synchromesh product. Two different products.)
Until that time, any further discussion from me is a waste.


Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Undoubtedly, you need to abstain from misrepresenting my post.
Notice how I said proper FM?
For smooth operation, the M6VR necessitates additional FM beyond what those fluids can provide; hence, the guidance of ACDelco 10-4014.



OP, try go through Ramblejam's statements,several times if need be, and catch what he is trying to get across.

 

[SHOZ]

The thread on the Gen Coupe site is interesting. Here's is the latest consensus from those pro motor oil.

1, GL-4 has half the ZDDP of GL-5, so around 800-1,100 should be fine, anything more and it will eat up yellow metals.
2, Tranny only puts out about 30% of the Differential's torque, so again it doesn't need the ZDDP of GL-5.
3, GL-5 should only be put in the Differential NOT the tranny.
4, 5W30 Motor oil is the equivalent viscosity of our stock 75W85 GL-4 and 5W40 and 5W50 (75W90) should be used for racing.
5, Our synchros need very slippery oil so synthetic would work the best.
6, In addition to ZDDP, synthetic anti wear additives are added to oils.
7, Based on the above information, any grade Valvoline Synpower zddp of 830, Mobil 1 5w30 zddp of 900, Mobil 1 0w40 zddp of 1,100, Mobil 1 5w50 zddp of 1,100, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W40 zddp of 1,250 and any grade Mobil 1 High Mileage zddp of 1,100 should work fine. Other motor oil companies do not list the ZDDP content, so I did not included them.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Try this:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/mtf.htm

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The trans on the Genesis Coupe is a piece of garbage. It is a Hyundai made 6 sp copied from BMW.

People have tried all sorts of mixtures and various lubes, as have I. Last three changes were Redline super lightweight shock proof, Redline MTL and currently Redline MT 85. The MT 85 is the correct weight spec.

But one poster on my Grn Coupe forum has been using 5w30 synthetic oil for the last 30k miles and is quite pleased with how it transformed the trans from a clunking, grinding hard to shift to smooth and quiet.

I know it use to be used in the last century by Honda from the factory.

Any thoughts?


Amsoil reports that the manual transmission takes 75W-90 GL-4. Give that a try and see how it works out for you.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/tr.../?code=MTGQT-EA

5W-30 engine oil and 75W-90 gear oil are two VERY different fluids.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Most Hyundai's were factory filled with GL4 75w90. They might still have an OE part number for it.

When the upgraded GL4 75w85's came out(less wear, better cold shifting, long fluid life, and improved MPG/HP), it took over.

For the Genesis, a double change(rinse and final fill) of MTF2/338 fluid is another option. It is a
http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_MTF-2.pdf

http://www.ravenol.de/en/products/usage/d/Product/show/p/ravenol-mtf-2-sae-75w-80.html
http://www.ravenolamerica.com/transmission-fluid/75w-80-manual-transmission-fluid-ravenol-mtf-2/

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/synchromax-manual-transmission-fluid/

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/drive-line/bg-syncro-shift-ii/

http://www.torcousa.com/technology/MTF.pdf

And of course, Neo MTF(if the diester based Neo doesn't help, then there is NO FLUID THAT WILL).
http://www.bakerprecision.com/neo/mtf.htm

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Try this:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/mtf.htm



So what is the actual viscosity of this stuff if it covers?

Quote:
Recommended only for manual transmissions where a low viscosity oil is specified, such as a 5/20, 5/30, 10/30, 10/40 motor oils and Automatic Transmission Fluids.



Go to

http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/

and do a search for "Manual Transmission Fluid"

 

[Greasymechtech]

http://www.bakerprecision.com/neo/mtf.htm

 

[SHOZ]

Well what a list of products to try. It's been suggested at the other thread that the trans does not like the FMs though and a minimum amount is what's needed.

I should state that it has been proved that Hyundai's assembly is suppose to be the root cause of the problems. And Hyundai has replaced quite a few via the warranty. They also made a change to the syncros in 2012 with then being switched to carbon coated IIRC.

There have been a few different fluids touted over there with the Mitsubishi Diaqueen for the EVO x the best, so they say. I feel some don't want to say it didn't help seeing as it cost near a $100 for a gallon.