5w30 synthetic oil in a manual transmission

[Ramblejam]

Alright, Red Raspberry...

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Here's is the latest consensus from those pro motor oil.


Consensus? Not exactly. You've directly pasted what one guy said (without directly attributing him) who claims to have "researched everything, my eyes are burning from all the reading I've done."

http://www.gencoupe.com/general-discussion/479921-new-notchy-tranny-5.html#post3980817

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
It's been suggested at the other thread that the trans does not like the FMs though and a minimum amount is what's needed.


Again, you've referenced the same guy. Additionally, you've incorrectly interpreted what he said. Here's his gem (that's sarcasm, folks) of a post:

"It's GL-4, so it meets that requirement, BUT it's 75W90, which is the same as 5W40. Our picky synchros will probably not like it. The TSB Hyundai put out said to replace the stock 75W85 with Pentosin 75W80 which is the same as Redline MTL, so basically you will be going up 2 weight classes from what the TSB calls for.
My suggestion is to put 1 quart of the Motorcraft and 1 quart of the Redline and see how it likes it. Hopefully the Motorcraft has very fine friction modifiers.
Now if you're out of warranty and/or not scared, I would put 1 quart Motorcraft with 1 quart Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W30. Remember, on page 2 of the oil chemist's paper, it says "GL-4 is basically motor oil with some added friction modifiers", this most of us old timers have known for years. Well our synchros do not like heavy weight oil and coarse friction modifiers so the Mobil 1 would be better. But it's up to you what you do.
The most important thing to remember is that Motor Oil has VERY FINE Friction Modifiers to bond onto rings and bearing that have VERY tight tolerances, Gear Oil have coarser friction modifiers as the gears and synchros in transmissions don't have as tight tolerances. Now our synchros are the exception to the rule, they do not like thick oil with coarse friction modifiers, so we have to find something else."

http://www.gencoupe.com/general-discussion/479921-new-notchy-tranny-5.html#post3981409

 

[SHOZ]

Most on the Gen Coupe don't go far from the recommended fluids. That's the point of this thread and when the motor oil was first discussed and of course the pro Hyundai people trashed it. But they have been silent since.

I don't know and that is why I am here.

As of now I am leaning towards some 5w30 M1 HM or the AC Delco.

Don't want to keep experimenting with $25 a qt fluids.

 

[IndyIan]

Anyone try tractor fluids? GL4 rated and with friction modifiers for chatter free operation of wet brakes and clutches? Its pretty cheap anyways, often $5/L in a 5L jug.
Valvoline unitrac has 1300ppm of zinc in it, my other spec sheets don't say.

 

[ryanschillinger]

Can you get the tractor gl4 in the US?

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: ryanschillinger
Can you get the tractor gl4 in the US?

Every tractor fluid I've seen is GL-4 rated and usually has a few manual transmission ratings as well. Any Walmart will have some, but the trick is to find it in a jug than in pails. TSC stores usually have some in jugs.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Most on the Gen Coupe don't go far from the recommended fluids. That's the point of this thread and when the motor oil was first discussed and of course the pro Hyundai people trashed it. But they have been silent since.

I don't know and that is why I am here.

As of now I am leaning towards some 5w30 M1 HM or the AC Delco.

Don't want to keep experimenting with $25 a qt fluids.


And I am not sure why you are actually here?

You throw out a link to some never heard of blog and then you argue with people who have experience and in the know.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Anyone try tractor fluids? GL4 rated and with friction modifiers for chatter free operation of wet brakes and clutches? Its pretty cheap anyways, often $5/L in a 5L jug.
Valvoline unitrac has 1300ppm of zinc in it, my other spec sheets don't say.


We have to be careful because friction modifiers for MTF's are NOT the same friction modifiers for ATF, are NOT the same friction modifiers for differentials fluids, are NOT the same friction modifiers for MO's, and are NOT the same friction modifiers for tractor wet clutches.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Anyone try tractor fluids? GL4 rated and with friction modifiers for chatter free operation of wet brakes and clutches? Its pretty cheap anyways, often $5/L in a 5L jug.
Valvoline unitrac has 1300ppm of zinc in it, my other spec sheets don't say.


We have to be careful because friction modifiers for MTF's are NOT the same friction modifiers for ATF, are NOT the same friction modifiers for differentials fluids, are NOT the same friction modifiers for MO's, and are NOT the same friction modifiers for tractor wet clutches.

Tractor fluid must be a quite a compromise as some tractors have almost everything you listed using the same fluid.

 

[MolaKule]

But ZDDP or phosphate chemistry's are an AW chemistry, not a friction modifier.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Most on the Gen Coupe don't go far from the recommended fluids. That's the point of this thread and when the motor oil was first discussed and of course the pro Hyundai people trashed it. But they have been silent since.

I don't know and that is why I am here.

As of now I am leaning towards some 5w30 M1 HM or the AC Delco.

Don't want to keep experimenting with $25 a qt fluids.


And I am not sure why you are actually here?

You throw out a link to some never heard of blog and then you argue with people who have experience and in the know.
Do you have experience with this transmission?

 

[Ramblejam]

I'm with dagreekgencoupe in so much as selecting a "slippery oil" of lighter viscosity would be an appropriate course of action here; using that though to justify the selection of engine oil isn't something I can agree with.

However...

I'm inclined to think that if you don't at least try out engine oil in this transmission, you'll always wonder "what if". So, go ahead and do so -- it's relatively inexpensive enough to not be cost prohibitive.

If you like the results, then great!
If not, then I've been nothing if not consistent as to what the next selection should be.

Good luck.

 

[SHOZ]

At this point I am considering the 5w30 M1 HM and the AC Delco 10-4014 it the M1 fails. But hold on it might take a couple years for good feedback.....

At least the fluid is easy to change out. I see Walmart has a 5 qt jug of the M1 5w30HM on sale now for under $27. Free shipping too now. I can always use it in the engine if needed.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Most on the Gen Coupe don't go far from the recommended fluids. That's the point of this thread and when the motor oil was first discussed and of course the pro Hyundai people trashed it. But they have been silent since.

I don't know and that is why I am here.

As of now I am leaning towards some 5w30 M1 HM or the AC Delco.

Don't want to keep experimenting with $25 a qt fluids.


And I am not sure why you are actually here?

You throw out a link to some never heard of blog and then you argue with people who have experience and in the know.
Do you have experience with this transmission?


Yes. I worked on a formulation for a foreign customer for this transmission.

I have also torn down or assisted in teardowns for more transmissions than you have been alive.

 

[SHOZ]

Well for the record I had the Redline MTL in before this change. It was pretty notchy so I went to the MT 85. That's why I originally considered the 50/50 MTL/MT85. plus I could use that in the other car's trans.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam


...I'm inclined to think that if you don't at least try out engine oil in this transmission, you'll always wonder "what if". So, go ahead and do so -- it's relatively inexpensive enough to not be cost prohibitive.

If you like the results, then great!
If not, then I've been nothing if not consistent as to what the next selection should be.

Good luck.


Yep. Pick one and go with it.

 

[Garak]

Our Walmarts will have them, but a US Walmart might not, since our Walmart house brand stuff is by a completely different supplier than the US house brand stuff.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Anyone try tractor fluids? GL4 rated and with friction modifiers for chatter free operation of wet brakes and clutches? Its pretty cheap anyways, often $5/L in a 5L jug.
Valvoline unitrac has 1300ppm of zinc in it, my other spec sheets don't say.


Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Tractor fluid must be a quite a compromise as some tractors have almost everything you listed using the same fluid.



Your proposed UTTO's might have that appropriate fm ..... and worth a try IMO.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Anyone try tractor fluids? GL4 rated and with friction modifiers for chatter free operation of wet brakes and clutches? Its pretty cheap anyways, often $5/L in a 5L jug.
Valvoline unitrac has 1300ppm of zinc in it, my other spec sheets don't say.


Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Tractor fluid must be a quite a compromise as some tractors have almost everything you listed using the same fluid.




Your proposed UTTO's might have that appropriate fm ..... and worth a try IMO.



Once more, We have to be careful because friction modifiers for MTF's are NOT the same friction modifiers for ATF, are NOT the same friction modifiers for differentials fluids, are NOT the same friction modifiers for MO's, and are NOT the same friction modifiers for tractor wet clutches.


With all of the dedicated MTF's out there with every viscosity imaginable, I don't understand why people continue to suggest non-applicable fluids.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Anyone try tractor fluids? GL4 rated and with friction modifiers for chatter free operation of wet brakes and clutches? Its pretty cheap anyways, often $5/L in a 5L jug.
Valvoline unitrac has 1300ppm of zinc in it, my other spec sheets don't say.

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Tractor fluid must be a quite a compromise as some tractors have almost everything you listed using the same fluid.

Your proposed UTTO's might have that appropriate fm ..... and worth a try IMO.

Once more, We have to be careful because friction modifiers for MTF's are NOT the same friction modifiers for ATF, are NOT the same friction modifiers for differentials fluids, are NOT the same friction modifiers for MO's, and are NOT the same friction modifiers for tractor wet clutches.
With all of the dedicated MTF's out there with every viscosity imaginable, I don't understand why people continue to suggest non-applicable fluids.


Granted typical friction modifiers in MTF's/ATF's/Differential fluids/MAF's/Wet clutches are different and delivering different desired effects .............. the flow of this thread has demonstrated and somehow determined that typical FM's in MTF's does NOT work in this Gen Coupe manual transmission ................ hence OP's suggestion of (synthetic) engine oils ..... and Ramblejam's suggestion of AC Delco 10-4014......

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
the flow of this thread has demonstrated and somehow determined that typical FM's in MTF's does NOT work in this Gen Coupe manual transmission ................ hence OP's suggestion of (synthetic) engine oils ..... and Ramblejam's suggestion of AC Delco 10-4014......


It hasn't demonstrated anything. We don't know if the OP doesn't have an internal problem so the fluids he has tried really don't mean anything.

The AC Delco 10-4014 has NO special friction modifier. All Synchromesh MTF's have 1 or more of four types of friction modifier chemistry.

I have also suggested the OP try both fluids, including the HM and see what happens, so I really don't see your point.