5w30 synthetic oil in a manual transmission

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ

As far as the grinding the gears question. Does grinding the gears hurt the snycros?


You don't "grind" gears. See post #3961799.
Hyundai has been replacing these transmissions for grinding the gears, specifically 5th. This is happening to new transmissions. In 2013 they went to carbon coated snychros and this has lessened the problem.

My point is with the 5w30 M1 HM the grinding is greatly reduced if not eliminated. Is this damaging the syncros?

 

[dagreek]

I found a speed shop in the area that does sell the Amsiol Synchromesh 5W30 MTF, so I will go there to buy it. The thing I find strange with their marketing is that I don't think they really check their dealers that well, the ones in the area are in parts of the neighboring town that you wouldn't want to go even in daylight.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: dagreek
.. The thing I find strange with their marketing is that I don't think they really check their dealers that well, the ones in the area are in parts of the neighboring town that you wouldn't want to go even in daylight.


That comment is not germane to the discussion at hand and is completely off-topic.

Let's stick to lubricants and mechanicals.

 

[dagreek]

No, I didn't not confuse the two. The Valvoline Product Data Sheet shows the exact same specs for both the MTF Synchromesh and VPS and say the difference is one is conventional and the other is synthetic I went by that, until I saw your analysis and realized that their marketing people made a printing error, that they still haven't corrected.

I want to thank you for your analysis and also for advising us that the Pennzoil Synchromesh, Valvoline Synchromesh, AC Delco Synchromesh, Amsoil Synchromesh and all the other Synchromeshes do in fact meet the GL-4 requirements, as they don't say it on their bottle nor on their Product Data Sheet. We over at the Genesis Coupe Forum have been trying everything that states GL-4 on the bottle or the data sheets for fear if we try something else we would void the warranty, but nothing has worked well. The TSB for the Pentosin MTF-2 75W80 didn't help much. The synchros aren't worn, it's just the transmission as a whole doesn't like the higher viscosity GL-4's. So now we know that the Synchromeshes meet the GL-4 requirement even though they don't say it and are thin enough for our very picky synchros. The reason why I switched to 5W30 Synthetic Motor Oil over 30K miles ago, was cause I commute 80 miles a day in stop and go New York traffic and I figured that putting the same stuff that I use in my 26 year old A-568 Mopar/Getrag tranny (still original only changed the clutch) would do the trick since it is the recommended choice of the Turbo Mopar community. The oil that was in there before was horrible, shifted like a tractor trailer, shifts had to be slow, had to hold the shifter in the gate till is slid in gear, notchy, binding and the oil smelled like sulfur when I drained it. I will be going with one of the Synchromeshes, preferably the Amsoil since it's synthetic, thanks again for your analysis and recommendation.

 

[dagreek]

Sorry, but I'd rather go to a retail shop than someone's basement. LOL!!!!!!

 

[MolaKule]

Whatever torques your input shaft!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dagreek
The Valvoline Product Data Sheet shows the exact same specs for both the MTF Synchromesh and VPS and say the difference is one is conventional and the other is synthetic I went by that, until I saw your analysis and realized that their marketing people made a printing error, that they still haven't corrected.

Get used to it. That won't be the last data sheet error you will come across, and it's good to run information by someone in the know, particularly if something seems a little bit off. I swear that the marketing people in oil companies would do very well to hire enthusiastic hobbyists like BITOGers to go over their data sheets, since they clearly don't have engineers go over them.

As for shopping experiences, well, as if Walmart is any more palatable than someone's basement on the wrong side of the tracks.

 

[SHOZ]

Anyone have the viscosity specs for the ACDelco 42291 10-4014?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Anyone have the viscosity specs for the ACDelco 42291 10-4014?


100C Kinematic Viscosity = 10.05 cSt
40C Kinematic Viscosity = 50 cSt
VI = 187

In the same range as Amsoil MTL, Redline MTL 75W80 GL-4 Gear Oil, Pennzoil Synchromesh, and Valvoline MTF.

You have been given this data many times.

I hope it sinks in now.

 

[SHOZ]

Thanks. First time for the viscosity specs though right? You must be confused with another thread.....

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I would use any one of the above dedicated MTF's since they have more AW chemistry than most PCMO's by a factor of 2.5.


While these products are superb in regards to wear protection, they lack proper FM to achieve desired results in this application.

ACDelco 10-4014 (Friction Modified Synchromesh) is what's needed here.


Sorry, not correct.

The Redline fluids, the Amsoil fluids, the Pennsoil Synchromesh, the Valvoline MTF, ACDelco, are ALL dedicated MTF fluids with GL-4 gear and bearing protection ratings, and ALL contain friction modification chemistry needed for the synchro essemblies.

Undoubtedly, you need to read up on manual transmissions:

Manual Transmissions and MTF's

specifically, post #3821548.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
the flow of this thread has demonstrated and somehow determined that typical FM's in MTF's does NOT work in this Gen Coupe manual transmission ................ hence OP's suggestion of (synthetic) engine oils ..... and Ramblejam's suggestion of AC Delco 10-4014......


It hasn't demonstrated anything. We don't know if the OP doesn't have an internal problem so the fluids he has tried really don't mean anything.

The AC Delco 10-4014 has NO special friction modifier. All Synchromesh MTF's have 1 or more of four types of friction modifier chemistry.

I have also suggested the OP try both fluids, including the HM and see what happens, so I really don't see your point.

 

[SHOZ]

I don't see the actual viscosity numbers in any of those post. I must need your clairvoyance.....

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF


How much clearer can it be?

 

[SHOZ]

I know of the AC Delco. But wanted the actual viscosity of it to compare to the other fluids. How hard is that to comprehend?

 

[SHOZ]

MTL lubes Viscosity (ASTM D445)


Redline MTL
TYPICAL PROPERTIES

API Service Class GL-4
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil) 5W30
SAE Viscosity Grade (Gear Oil) 75W80
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 54.1
Viscosity Index 185
Pour Point, °C -50
Pour Point, °F -58
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 120


Amsoil Synthetic Manual Synchromesh Transmission Fluid

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 9.7
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 48.3
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270 190
Flash Point, °C (°F) 150°C Min 218 (424)
Pour Point, °C (°F) -46 (-51)
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C 39,050


ACDelco 42291 10-4014

100C = 10.05 cSt
40C = 50 cSt
VI = 187


Mobil 1 5w20 HM

Technical details
SAE Grade 5W-20
cSt @ 40ºC 50.1
cSt @ 100ºC 8.6
Viscosity Index 150
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 2.7
Pour Point, ºC, (ASTM D97) -42
Flash Point, ºC, (ASTM D92) 244
Density @15.6ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.856


Mobil 1 5w30 HM

Technical details
SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity (ASTM D445)
cSt @ 40ºC 69.2
cSt @ 100ºC 11.7
Viscosity Index 165
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.3
Pour Point, ºC, (ASTM D97) -39
Flash Point, ºC, (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.856


Typical Properties

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30

SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity (ASTM D 445)
cST @ 40 ºC 63.5
cST @ 100 ºC 11.5
Viscosity Index 178
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
HTHS Viscosity, mPa s at 150 ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.3
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -54 -
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 217
Density at 15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85


Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50

SAE Grade 0W-50
Viscosity (ASTM D 445)
cST @ 40 ºC 100
cST @ 100 ºC 17.2
Viscosity Index 189
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3
HTHS Viscosity, mPa s at 150 ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.8
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -54
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 221
Density at 15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
... How hard is that to comprehend?


Apparently, it is pretty difficult for you.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
... How hard is that to comprehend?


Apparently, it is pretty difficult for you.

You are just trolling now.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
... How hard is that to comprehend?


Apparently, it is pretty difficult for you.

You are just trolling now.


Nope, just being honest.

When was the last time you developed or formulated a lubricant?

Recommend you stick to "Lectricity."

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
... How hard is that to comprehend?


Apparently, it is pretty difficult for you.

You are just trolling now.


Nope, just being honest.

When was the last time you developed or formulated a lubricant?

Recommend you stick to "Lectricity."
I never had. But when I come to a site asking for info from the experts I don't expect them to be condescending and avoid the direct questions.

I dilutes any held notions of expert.