I always change filter with oil change.
Look at YouTube user arctic388 to see what filters really filter.
Look at YouTube user arctic388 to see what filters really filter.
Is Toyota 0W-20 SN made in heaven?
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Originally Posted By: Arctic388
I always change filter with oil change.
Look at YouTube user arctic388 to see what filters really filter.
Arctic388, you know that going against the Honda grain is frowned down upon by other Honda members. I hope one of them does not install a used filter on your Accord while you are asleep at night.
I always change filter with oil change.
Look at YouTube user arctic388 to see what filters really filter.
Arctic388, you know that going against the Honda grain is frowned down upon by other Honda members. I hope one of them does not install a used filter on your Accord while you are asleep at night.
Is there a PDS available?
how is that promised UOA coming along?
Is there a Pds available for TGMO?
Originally Posted By: Shannow
If you need one, you aren't worthy.
If you need one, you aren't worthy.
Is the US TGMO 0w20 and Canadian TGMO 0w20 identical? My local toyota/lexus dealership here in BC Canada won't go below $6 per bottle.. So was thinking of getting it at a Toyota dealership in the States and see if it would be cheaper...
Originally Posted By: mauric3
Is the US TGMO 0w20 and Canadian TGMO 0w20 identical? My local toyota/lexus dealership here in BC Canada won't go below $6 per bottle.. So was thinking of getting it at a Toyota dealership in the States and see if it would be cheaper...
You aren't getting it cheaper in the states for 6 bucks a quart. And even if you do try shipping it. Its HAS/MAT. Big shipping price tag.
And because tgmo is the Toyota genuine oil yes it's all the same formula,made by Mobil
Is the US TGMO 0w20 and Canadian TGMO 0w20 identical? My local toyota/lexus dealership here in BC Canada won't go below $6 per bottle.. So was thinking of getting it at a Toyota dealership in the States and see if it would be cheaper...
You aren't getting it cheaper in the states for 6 bucks a quart. And even if you do try shipping it. Its HAS/MAT. Big shipping price tag.
And because tgmo is the Toyota genuine oil yes it's all the same formula,made by Mobil
Purchased enough for my next 2 OCI's. At a cost of just $4.66/liter.
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: stchman
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Toyota 0W20 is made by Exxon, Mobil 1 0W20 is made by Exxon. Since Exxon is in heaven and M1 is made by Exxon, then M1 must be made in heaven.
Simple logic.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Toyota 0W20 is made by Exxon, Mobil 1 0W20 is made by Exxon. Since Exxon is in heaven and M1 is made by Exxon, then M1 must be made in heaven.
Simple logic.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: stchman
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Toyota 0W20 is made by Exxon, Mobil 1 0W20 is made by Exxon. Since Exxon is in heaven and M1 is made by Exxon, then M1 must be made in heaven.
Simple logic.
Nice try but the lubrication Gods only allowed one ExxonMobil formulation to be made in heaven, although I have it on good authority that M1 0W-40 is being considered for admittance but that's it for XOM.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: stchman
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Toyota 0W20 is made by Exxon, Mobil 1 0W20 is made by Exxon. Since Exxon is in heaven and M1 is made by Exxon, then M1 must be made in heaven.
Simple logic.
Nice try but the lubrication Gods only allowed one ExxonMobil formulation to be made in heaven, although I have it on good authority that M1 0W-40 is being considered for admittance but that's it for XOM.
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: stchman
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Toyota 0W20 is made by Exxon, Mobil 1 0W20 is made by Exxon. Since Exxon is in heaven and M1 is made by Exxon, then M1 must be made in heaven.
Simple logic.
No such thing as simple logic here. You heard it from the boss, there's only one 0W20 made in heaven, it's made by select angels.
0W40 has a shot butttttttttttttttt.......... it will never be like a high VI 0W20.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: stchman
Mobil 1 makes a 0W-20 oil, and it's available at Walmart.
But it isn't made in Heaven. LOL
Toyota 0W20 is made by Exxon, Mobil 1 0W20 is made by Exxon. Since Exxon is in heaven and M1 is made by Exxon, then M1 must be made in heaven.
Simple logic.
No such thing as simple logic here. You heard it from the boss, there's only one 0W20 made in heaven, it's made by select angels.
After reading through all 10 pages of this thread, and being thoroughly entertained along the way, I can't help but toss my observations in.
I have a 2002 ZO6 Corvette that I've owned since 2004 and have put over 160,000 km on. It currently has over 200,000 km on the odometer. I know this car. For those who don't, it's a 5.7L pushrod V8 with a manual transmission. The car has the original clutch in it but has had tons of "smiles" put on and has gone as quick as 11.86 @ 118 MPH before any engine mods were done.
The factory fill was M1 5W-30, which I continued to use for several years after owning it. Not being an oil expert I decided to follow the recommendations of a few folks who raced their Vettes and went with M1 10W-30 instead. If there were any operational differences between the two oils they weren't enough to notice. Both oils seemed to have similar hot idle pressures and that's the most attention I paid to the switch.
Two years ago I installed a new camshaft, lifters and high flow (+18%) Melling oil pump. Being a VERY high lift cam (.631/.644) the valvetrain is VERY noisy. I knew this going in. On cold starts I had pretty severe lifter tapping for 1-2 minutes and generally had to wait for coolant temps to get over 100F before setting off.
Since reading A PILE of information and consulting with a few folks here that seem to know their stuff, I decided to drop the M1 10W-30 and replace it with straight TGMO 0W-20. The Vette has both an oil pressure gauge and an oil temperature readout so I figured as long as I kept an eye on things I'd be OK and if anything looked off I could just dump it and go with something heavier.
I pulled into the local Jiffy Lube with the car nice and hot, dropped the 10W-30 M1 and dumped in the TGMO 0W-20. As soon as the engine built oil pressure with the new fill I could tell things were looking good... my clackety-clap valvetrain was now significantly quieter, more of a swishing sound. Idle was smoother with little shaking. the Jiffy guys were all standing around and noticed the same thing... they were all curious with what I was doing.
The next day on a cold start (oil at ~60F) the car started and idled so smoothly I couldn't believe it. This is a high lift cam but is not radical from a lobe separation or duration standpoint (Lingenfelter GT11), still on a cold start it would "bark" to life and chop-chop-chop, sounding pretty tough and quite loud. Now five seconds after starting it settles into a nice smooth low RPM idle, much quieter than before and with none of the drama. I can't wait to compare it to my friend's '03 ZO6 which has a stock cam in it. I bet it idles almost as smoothly/quietly. My cold start lifter tap is almost gone completely and I feel as though the car is ready to drive as soon as it's running.
With the car warmed up and the oil is at normal operating temp, between 210-220F, the idle pressure was around 29 psi which is about 3-4 psi less than it was with the heavier M1 30wt oils. If I deliberately heated the oil to 240F the idle pressure dropped to about 22 psi. This was with 6L of TGMO and the car needs 7L to be full, so I dumped in 1L of M1 0W-40 SM to bring up the hot oil pressure slightly (a light version of the CATERHAM blend). Now with oil temps of 240F my idle pressure is about 25 psi. Based on oil blending calculators and assuming the TGMO 0W-20 has a HTHSV of 2.6, my 6:1 blend should have a HTHSV of about 2.72 with a VI of about 212, cst@100C 9.2 and cst@40C 41.7.
Driving the car is MUCH improved. The light throttle responsiveness of the engine has improved so much it's like it's a different car. The effect is similar to having installed a lighter weight flywheel with none of the drawbacks... it revs so much quicker off idle, and rev-matching downshifts happens much crisper than I ever remember.
This is a big pushrod V8 with a big camshaft, probably the farthest thing from what Toyota developed this oil on. Rough calculations indicate the oil pump is drawing less than 0.5 hp to pump oil at operating temp at engine speeds up to about 2500 RPM, which on an engine that makes comfortably over 400 hp is rather insignificant. Yet the engine feels as though a huge weight has been lifted from it (pun intended). High RPM at WOT there's little if any difference from before... the butt dyno is not calibrated finely enough to detect those things, but at lower RPM there's a BIG difference in how smooth and responsive the engine is.
In my humble opinion I think there's a lot more to this oil than just the lower viscosity. Once again I'm comparing this to M1 5W and 10W-30 oils, not other light weight oils. Would I be able to tell a difference between this oil and another 0W-20? I don't know. In this big brutish engine, one that I would have thought less sensitive to small changes like this compared to typically sized engines, I'm literally blown away by the improvement a simple oil "change" has made. Is it the tri-whatever moly? Is it the ultra low viscosity? Is it the unicorn pee additive package? I don't know... I'm FAR from an expert on engine oil. All I can tell you is, fairy breast and angel hair analogies notwithstanding, I'm not putting anything else in this engine for the foreseeable future.
I support those who require "data" as evidence of a change and I salute you. I am that way well. All I can say as a conclusion here is:
Oil is cheap, don't knock it until you've tried it.
I have a 2002 ZO6 Corvette that I've owned since 2004 and have put over 160,000 km on. It currently has over 200,000 km on the odometer. I know this car. For those who don't, it's a 5.7L pushrod V8 with a manual transmission. The car has the original clutch in it but has had tons of "smiles" put on and has gone as quick as 11.86 @ 118 MPH before any engine mods were done.
The factory fill was M1 5W-30, which I continued to use for several years after owning it. Not being an oil expert I decided to follow the recommendations of a few folks who raced their Vettes and went with M1 10W-30 instead. If there were any operational differences between the two oils they weren't enough to notice. Both oils seemed to have similar hot idle pressures and that's the most attention I paid to the switch.
Two years ago I installed a new camshaft, lifters and high flow (+18%) Melling oil pump. Being a VERY high lift cam (.631/.644) the valvetrain is VERY noisy. I knew this going in. On cold starts I had pretty severe lifter tapping for 1-2 minutes and generally had to wait for coolant temps to get over 100F before setting off.
Since reading A PILE of information and consulting with a few folks here that seem to know their stuff, I decided to drop the M1 10W-30 and replace it with straight TGMO 0W-20. The Vette has both an oil pressure gauge and an oil temperature readout so I figured as long as I kept an eye on things I'd be OK and if anything looked off I could just dump it and go with something heavier.
I pulled into the local Jiffy Lube with the car nice and hot, dropped the 10W-30 M1 and dumped in the TGMO 0W-20. As soon as the engine built oil pressure with the new fill I could tell things were looking good... my clackety-clap valvetrain was now significantly quieter, more of a swishing sound. Idle was smoother with little shaking. the Jiffy guys were all standing around and noticed the same thing... they were all curious with what I was doing.
The next day on a cold start (oil at ~60F) the car started and idled so smoothly I couldn't believe it. This is a high lift cam but is not radical from a lobe separation or duration standpoint (Lingenfelter GT11), still on a cold start it would "bark" to life and chop-chop-chop, sounding pretty tough and quite loud. Now five seconds after starting it settles into a nice smooth low RPM idle, much quieter than before and with none of the drama. I can't wait to compare it to my friend's '03 ZO6 which has a stock cam in it. I bet it idles almost as smoothly/quietly. My cold start lifter tap is almost gone completely and I feel as though the car is ready to drive as soon as it's running.
With the car warmed up and the oil is at normal operating temp, between 210-220F, the idle pressure was around 29 psi which is about 3-4 psi less than it was with the heavier M1 30wt oils. If I deliberately heated the oil to 240F the idle pressure dropped to about 22 psi. This was with 6L of TGMO and the car needs 7L to be full, so I dumped in 1L of M1 0W-40 SM to bring up the hot oil pressure slightly (a light version of the CATERHAM blend). Now with oil temps of 240F my idle pressure is about 25 psi. Based on oil blending calculators and assuming the TGMO 0W-20 has a HTHSV of 2.6, my 6:1 blend should have a HTHSV of about 2.72 with a VI of about 212, cst@100C 9.2 and cst@40C 41.7.
Driving the car is MUCH improved. The light throttle responsiveness of the engine has improved so much it's like it's a different car. The effect is similar to having installed a lighter weight flywheel with none of the drawbacks... it revs so much quicker off idle, and rev-matching downshifts happens much crisper than I ever remember.
This is a big pushrod V8 with a big camshaft, probably the farthest thing from what Toyota developed this oil on. Rough calculations indicate the oil pump is drawing less than 0.5 hp to pump oil at operating temp at engine speeds up to about 2500 RPM, which on an engine that makes comfortably over 400 hp is rather insignificant. Yet the engine feels as though a huge weight has been lifted from it (pun intended). High RPM at WOT there's little if any difference from before... the butt dyno is not calibrated finely enough to detect those things, but at lower RPM there's a BIG difference in how smooth and responsive the engine is.
In my humble opinion I think there's a lot more to this oil than just the lower viscosity. Once again I'm comparing this to M1 5W and 10W-30 oils, not other light weight oils. Would I be able to tell a difference between this oil and another 0W-20? I don't know. In this big brutish engine, one that I would have thought less sensitive to small changes like this compared to typically sized engines, I'm literally blown away by the improvement a simple oil "change" has made. Is it the tri-whatever moly? Is it the ultra low viscosity? Is it the unicorn pee additive package? I don't know... I'm FAR from an expert on engine oil. All I can tell you is, fairy breast and angel hair analogies notwithstanding, I'm not putting anything else in this engine for the foreseeable future.
I support those who require "data" as evidence of a change and I salute you. I am that way well. All I can say as a conclusion here is:
Oil is cheap, don't knock it until you've tried it.
^ Great post, thanks for sharing.
How did the engine look after a long life of Mobil 1? (Prior to putting in the new camshaft).
I'd like to know more about TGMO. Noack would be nice.
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
How did the engine look after a long life of Mobil 1? (Prior to putting in the new camshaft).
I'd like to know more about TGMO. Noack would be nice.
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
Originally Posted By: buster
How did the engine look after a long life of Mobil 1? (Prior to putting in the new camshaft).
I only had the top half of the engine apart so I can't comment on the bottom end, but the heads and valvetrain were absolutely spotless, not a trace of anything sludge-like anywhere. I was really impressed. The valve guides were still nice and tight, and with a little oil on the stems there was no play in them at all. I lapped the exhaust valve seats and tossed it back together with new oil seals on the valves, just for good measure since it wasn't using any oil worth noting.
FWIW, all the water passages in the heads were spotless as well, and the engine had the factory fill of Dexcool that had 185,000 km on it.
Originally Posted By: buster
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
You and me both!
How did the engine look after a long life of Mobil 1? (Prior to putting in the new camshaft).
I only had the top half of the engine apart so I can't comment on the bottom end, but the heads and valvetrain were absolutely spotless, not a trace of anything sludge-like anywhere. I was really impressed. The valve guides were still nice and tight, and with a little oil on the stems there was no play in them at all. I lapped the exhaust valve seats and tossed it back together with new oil seals on the valves, just for good measure since it wasn't using any oil worth noting.
FWIW, all the water passages in the heads were spotless as well, and the engine had the factory fill of Dexcool that had 185,000 km on it.
Originally Posted By: buster
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
You and me both!
Originally Posted By: buster
I'd like to know more about TGMO. Noack would be nice.
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
I suspect NOACK is in the 13-14% range not that it really matters.
Blue_Angel isn't running straight TGMO but a light TGMO/M1 0W-40 blend.
With the maximum oil temp's he has confirmed with OP that he is still maintaining higher than necessary hot operational viscosity, so there is no reason to expect any abnormal bearing wear.
I'd like to know more about TGMO. Noack would be nice.
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
I suspect NOACK is in the 13-14% range not that it really matters.
Blue_Angel isn't running straight TGMO but a light TGMO/M1 0W-40 blend.
With the maximum oil temp's he has confirmed with OP that he is still maintaining higher than necessary hot operational viscosity, so there is no reason to expect any abnormal bearing wear.
Originally Posted By: buster
^ Great post, thanks for sharing.
How did the engine look after a long life of Mobil 1? (Prior to putting in the new camshaft).
I'd like to know more about TGMO. Noack would be nice.
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
+1
Sounds like your 85/15 blend is working very nicely. I'm now considering pushing mine up to 80/20, TGMO/Mobil 1 ESP Delvac. Our engines are fairly similar, 2002 with over 200k, pushrod. That would give me a VI of about 210, cst@100C 9.54 and cst@40C 43.88.
Too many options
^ Great post, thanks for sharing.
How did the engine look after a long life of Mobil 1? (Prior to putting in the new camshaft).
I'd like to know more about TGMO. Noack would be nice.
Hopefully you don't get any excessive bearing wear with the TGMO.
+1
Sounds like your 85/15 blend is working very nicely. I'm now considering pushing mine up to 80/20, TGMO/Mobil 1 ESP Delvac. Our engines are fairly similar, 2002 with over 200k, pushrod. That would give me a VI of about 210, cst@100C 9.54 and cst@40C 43.88.
Too many options
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