You MUST Use a "Premium" Filter

[axjohn]

Thanks to all. I'm just not convinced that the increased flow from a K&N is worth it for a street, non-race vehicle. "Race" vehicles see different usage than street vehicles. Race vehicles have engines that tend to get 'torn down' a lot more regularly than I want my engine worked on! As such, it seems that high flow is critical for the racers, who will be inspecting the insides of the engines regularly, and R&r'ing anything that needs replacing. For a street car, maybe it's more essential to have 'necessary and sufficient' flow AND super-efficient filtering ability. Since I'm going to be switching over to the GC at my next interval (from M1 0w-40), I wanted to get a filter that will stand up to my intended service/oil change interval. Ideally, we could expect excellent flow and excellent filtering, but in reality it looks as if we can only reasonably expect one or the other--unless we spend the big bucks! Fortunately, I won't be changing the oil for awhile, so the ...search for the perfect oil filter for my application continues!!!

 

[Patman]

The K&N oil filter is not really an all out race type filter though, it's more of a filter for the person who drives their car very hard on the street. This filter still filters out about 90% of the particles in the 10-20 micron range in the multipass test, so it's still going to do a good job in that department.

 

[RalphPWood]

To be of much use on a modern engine a filter must be capable of submicronic filtration. It must also have enough capacity to keep cleaning oil between filter changes. The only filters that can clean oil are byass filters. The only bypass filters that are practical are the ones that are remote from the engine and have hoses running to them. Some filter makers put both the full flow filter and the bypass filter in the same housing. It isn't practical because the bypass filter section reaches it's capacity too fast. Then the filter reverts back to only a full flow filter. The bypass section they use is usually capable of 2 to 3 microns. Not good enough. Especially when it can only keep doing it for a few miles. Motor Guard Corporation has a special cellulose element similar to coffee filter paper on a polyethylene core. It has a 175 degree F limit because of the core. It is rated at 0.01 micron for what they are used for I think they would probably be closer to one tenth of one micron in motor oil under pressure. I think all of the cellulose filters are about the same that use concentrated cellulose. An engine doesn't know the difference between a Frantz, Gulf Coast 0-1jr, Motor Guard M-30 and M-60 and a few others. The difference is quality of the housing, which one is messy to change and that sort of thing. You just have to do your research and determine which one suits your needs. My personal choice for small engines is the Motor Guard of California. For large engines the Gulf Coast filter of Gulfport, MS. Do your research but try to get off trying to determine which of the filters that don't clean oil is the best. All full flow filters do what they are designed to do. Remove the large engine damaging abrasives. You drain the oil to get rid of the smaller engine wearing abrasives and acid and water. Or you install one of the absorbing type submicronic bypass filters. If you think micro glass can absorb water and acid better than cellulose go for it. Ralph

 

[Schultz]

Just speculation, but could it be that the papers you mention are intended more for the laboratory environment, and unsuitable for the required flow and harsh environments posed in an engine? I'm not particularly familiar with other specialty (such as laboratory) filter media. Lab type filters have to endure harsher chemicals, but the heat/cold & pressure cycles that automotive/industrial has provides it's own mechanical problems. Chemically the oil doesn't become acidic enough to do much the to filtration media. Heck, there are a lot toilet paper and paper towel oil bypass filters in service. To answer the other half of your question about flow. Yes, some of the media manufactures mentioned are geared toward lab but all mentioned offer industrial media for automotive & aerospace. Lab type media would be too expensive for most automotive use, even though it would meet the flow requirements. If you look at automotive type media, it's of much lower quality, there is a lot of fuzz on the media. When you first use of one these filters some of that fuzz will detach, but will likely be caught its next time around. In a lab filter, it’s typically unacceptable to have anything released by the filter at startup. So, lab media typically has a poly-type laminate on the downstream side or better binders to keep everything together. I was going to post pic's of an oil filter media and some lab stuff. How do you post pic's?

 

[TC]

That's some very interesting info on high-end papers, Schultz. You confirmed a nagging suspicion I've always had, that in general, automotive oil filter paper is just as "cheap" as it looks. Many medias seem to have all the "fineness" and quality of a dried corn cob. You suggest that much better quality paper media exists, and would work just fine in an engine, but firms choose the cheap route to save a few bucks. The usual, and sad, nickel-and-diming. You thought that acid would not be a problem, but I've pasted a post from "GSV" found elsewhere in these forums: "Apparently the move towards glass/synthetic based media is due to longer drain intervals and a resulting rise in acids in the oils used in fleets. The old tried and true paper media is starting to fail at the longer drain intervals. I found an article online about this while surfing for info on bypass filters. It was in some online fleet management magazine if you want to look for it." (End of GSV's comments.) RalphPWood -- Thanks for all the details on bypass systems. Clearly those puppies are the kings of filtration. But I was curious as to your comment that "To be of much use on a modern engine a filter must be capable of submicronic filtration." The SAE studies determined that the smallest clearances in operating engines are in the 2-3 micron range, and the studies subsequently concluded that filtration down to 1 or 2 microns is necessary. So I'm curious as to your "submicronic" comment. Thanks.

 

[axjohn]

NAPA Gold oil filters are currently on sale for $3.99 (yes, that's right), at all CORPORATELY OWNED NAPA stores. I was told this yesterday by the counterperson, so I purchased 6 of them. If you have NAPA near you, ask them if they are corporate or indepently owned. Sale may or may not be going on at independently owned stores. BTW, my NAPA is in Rancho Cucamonga, CA.

 

[RalphPWood]

My concern is diesel soot. A lot of it is much smaller than one micron. The submicron particles will start bringing the soot levels above the allowable percentage. One percent is about as high as I would want. When soot particles are even smaller than a submicronic bypass filter can remove the only way you can keep the percentage down is by diluting it with new oil or changing the oil. Since I don't do routine oil changes I have to depend on submicronic filtration and new oil added. When you are after maximum equipment life with no oil drains everything has to come together. Some filter makers claim that their filters will go farther between changes. This is true but you will get a higher wear rate. Personally I don't want normal wear. I want as near zero wear as possible at the lowest cost. Submicronic filtration is the only way you can make expensive oil economical. A guy up at Gainesville, TX that has a propane company left an oil sample on my door step for me to check. Awhile back he put a 0-1 Gulf Coast filter on his Ford Powerstroke and pulled a big fifth wheel trailer to Alaska and back. He probably didn't change the filter on the trip. It is very black which is soot too small to be filtered out. It passed the palm test the viscosity feels good. My machine zeros on new oil then compares the oil. My machine would get a false reading because of the Duralube. It will need to go to a lab. He injects propane into the engine. I need to go up there and get educated. My old Ford could use a little boost in the mountains. I need to put a Motor Guard on one of his propane trucks so that he can see what a white cellulose element looks like loaded with wear metals. Ralph [ October 02, 2003, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: RalphPWood ]

 

[Mykro]

I drive a 1999 F250 SD PSD With only 41,000 miles. I just recently installed a Frantz on my Engine, Transmission, and today I installed a Frantz on the fuel line. I installed the Frantz on the engine about 700 miles ago. I changed the filter at 500 miles. Before I installed the Frantz I took a sample of the engine oil which had only 2,221 miles on it. The oil was pitch BLACK and REAKED of soot!! I rubbed a little bit of it on my fingers and my fingers turned black from the soot.. Now the oil smells fresh, and there is no longer Soot in the oil.. I'm impressed!!... What I'm really tickled about is that my transmission is protected!! Remember.. There is no filter on a transmission.. And its always the first major thing (Has been for me anyways) to go bad $$$$ Now too I will always have clean injectors... There will be no more worry about dirty diesel coming from underground tanks.. Or water in my fuel.. It won't matter where I purchase my Diesel fuel..When it hits my injectors it will be pure!! The By-Pass cellulose filter is King of filtration !! [ October 08, 2003, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Mykro ]