Wrong OEM oil filter ruins Mercedes engine

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: supton
Hmm, could be. I thought they were all paper.

I guess just getting rid of metal does make for less waste. But still. I still think this is going backwards, at least in terms of waste.

Plus, my Toyota filters are rated for 10k too. Pretty sure they are just paper elements, but I could be wrong, I never bothered to look up what they are (they sure feel like paper).


There's a lot less waste with a cartridge filter. Keep in mind a lot of filters make it to the trash bin. Spin on filters are probably holding a lot of oil in them. The cartridge filter cuts down on a lot of that kind of pollution too, even if tossed into the trash.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: supton
Hmm, could be. I thought they were all paper.

I guess just getting rid of metal does make for less waste. But still. I still think this is going backwards, at least in terms of waste.

Plus, my Toyota filters are rated for 10k too. Pretty sure they are just paper elements, but I could be wrong, I never bothered to look up what they are (they sure feel like paper).


The yellow ones are typically paper, the white ones are that synthetic fleece one, whatever fleece really means. Although I think Mobil 1 has a filter for MB also and it's kind of yellowish/orange and they also claim it's a synthetic blend.

 

[spackard]

On Amazon, if I add a '13 MB GLK350 to my garage, then shop for oil filters, it'll recommend both the old and the new style.

This reminds me of shopping for electronics parts. They'd sell you anything they have, but nowadays won't suggest what you should be using. Many years ago it wasn't quite that way. Probably burned by too many non-designers.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
His sentence structure & use of language gives him up.
I only said that because you missed the far more likely generalization that he's just a Mercedes driver.
Really??
I didn't think that at all.
As previously stated, my above reply is what I used, not that he was a MB driver. All MB drivers aren't stupid, clueless, etc.

Doesn't MB service all their vehicles now for the whole warranty period? Fluids included? I believe it was still under warranty. If so, why not let them do it and get a free loaner? Isn't that the whole point of buying a marque brand in the first place? The service?

My neighbors who own these have the dealer come get the car, deliver them a loaner, do the work, return their car to their home and pick up the loaner.

Easy, peasy....

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Quote:
The reason it was obvious to me was because I read all the links, on both sites

Congratulations and good for you. I read the link posted after my query too, so what. Wasting bandwidth posting it again unnecessary for me.

And clearly based on a significant amount of replies here (several after the response to my question) many generally agree that it's not quite so obvious a reason or explanation. That includes but not limited to the previously multiple quoted member(CrAlt) to whom I replied. So apparently I'm not alone in that observation or opinion.

However if being surly in presenting your opinion makes you feel better somehow, guess that's your right.
Ha! You must really be over-heating up there in the great NE!

I'm not the only one who thought it obvious. You took my reply as a stinging rebuke, when it wasn't meant as such. I don't even know you. Perhaps you've had multiple bad experiences at some male yelling ISN'T IT OBVIOUS to you, thus your sensitivity to the word.

Chill out. I deal with large amounts of detail & data everyday as an engineer. It's what I have to do. Many 'out there' do not I've found.

No more wasting BW here with you..../clear.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
My take:

This TSB isn't written by MB. I'm not sure what to make of it.

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=358805&d=1500146124


Good catch! A little creative Googling... It's from Prime Guard Filters. Here is the full PDF:
http://selubeproducts.com/customer-resou...ommendation.pdf

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Doesn't MB service all their vehicles now for the whole warranty period? Fluids included? I believe it was still under warranty. If so, why not let them do it and get a free loaner? Isn't that the whole point of buying a marque brand in the first place? The service?

My neighbors who own these have the dealer come get the car, deliver them a loaner, do the work, return their car to their home and pick up the loaner.

Easy, peasy....


I think you are confusing BMW with Mercedes. I don't think they ever offered free maintenance. You can buy a pre-paid maintenance package. Those packages cover whatever is required at that particular mileage so standard stuff like brake fluid flush every 2 years and then maybe plugs or transmission fluids depend on the interval specified by that particular model. Sometimes when selling CPO cars they threw in some free maintenance as part of a promotion.

That's a pretty nice perk for the neighbor, haven't asked if the MB dealer does that. The local one does have a free breakfast/lunch bar if you're waiting for service plus refrigerators like a convenience store full of free drinks. Loaners are pretty standard with any warranty work, the complaint seem to be getting a C class if you have an E class or an E class if you have an S class or worse yet, a CLA.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: supton
Hmm, could be. I thought they were all paper.

I guess just getting rid of metal does make for less waste. But still. I still think this is going backwards, at least in terms of waste.

Plus, my Toyota filters are rated for 10k too. Pretty sure they are just paper elements, but I could be wrong, I never bothered to look up what they are (they sure feel like paper).


There's a lot less waste with a cartridge filter. Keep in mind a lot of filters make it to the trash bin. Spin on filters are probably holding a lot of oil in them. The cartridge filter cuts down on a lot of that kind of pollution too, even if tossed into the trash.


Exactly--so why add plastic to a paper filter? It's going backwards.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: supton
Hmm, could be. I thought they were all paper.

I guess just getting rid of metal does make for less waste. But still. I still think this is going backwards, at least in terms of waste.

Plus, my Toyota filters are rated for 10k too. Pretty sure they are just paper elements, but I could be wrong, I never bothered to look up what they are (they sure feel like paper).


There's a lot less waste with a cartridge filter. Keep in mind a lot of filters make it to the trash bin. Spin on filters are probably holding a lot of oil in them. The cartridge filter cuts down on a lot of that kind of pollution too, even if tossed into the trash.


Exactly--so why add plastic to a paper filter? It's going backwards.


I'm not an engineer or filter designer. My guess is the plastic is for strength, and I don't know how else they'd make a ADV. Even with the plastic it still pollutes less, and that I believe is what the goal was, zero pollution, that's a tough one.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Whatever that plastic is, it's very tough.

Don't count out that plastic as being recyclable. It might very well be.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
This TSB isn't written by MB......

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=358805&d=1500146124

So as posted, it's not an authentic Mercedes Benz sourced document/tsb. But rather apparently sourced from an unrelated aftermarket filter supplier, Prime Guard. I missed that information included in the bottom lower left corner of the original size document linked and not included in the zoomed/exploded view posted here.

Thanks for pointing that out. Exploded/zoomed view or not, as noted by others hard to miss to difference in the construction between the two cartridges.

 

[HangFire]

So the question is, does the document just represent Prime Guard's overcaution in avoiding liability, or is engine damage really likely?

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: bigjl
I am no apologist for Mercedes.

But can't see how they can be in any way to blame.

The only way Mercexes could be to blame is if a Mercedes Dealer workshop had used the wrong filter due to a mistake on the parts database.

Even then basic engineering practice would be to compare the part coming off with the one going on.

Any differences then a check is made to see of the part has been updated in some way or if the part is wrong.


If a catastrophic damage can incur if the old filter is used, you should design the new filter housing in a way that the old filter doesn't fit. Put a notch or something.

This is not a foreign concept to car makers -- their electrical connectors are designed in such a way.


You can't engineer things based on the assumption of stupidity on the part of owners.

I can't see how this is in any way a Mercedes problem.

This is a stupidity problem.

Owns an expensive and wants to save a few $ on a filter....

Maybe they should consider owning a 10 yr old Kia instead.

How obvious does it need to be?

The first three digits of the part number appear to be engine specific.

I would have the same opinion if we were talking about a Pontiac, Chevrolet, Cadillac or any other US made vehicle.

To make an excuse for stupidity only condones it.

One filter has a big plastic bit on it with an oil seal, the other doesn't.

Owner of this vehicle is penny smart but pound foolish.

 

[Vikas]

After reading all the 5 pages, fake news, huh???
The so called "ruins engine" was incorrect.

But let us continue beating this dead horse as much as we can.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: kschachn

Your Walmart carries Mann filters?


Yes. They have the Castrol Edge 0w40 also, so one stop shopping. They have them at Advance Auto as well, but they are more expensive.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Your Walmart carries Mann filters?

Yes. They have the Castrol Edge 0w40 also, so one stop shopping. They have them at Advance Auto as well, but they are more expensive.

Interesting, I've never looked at Walmart for my old BMW but I doubt they would have the one I need. It isn't all that popular of a size.

My local AutoZone has them I think, but the BMW dealer is near work so I usually just stop there.

 

[Gokhan]

Fake news, yes. But the MB owner got the fake news from his MB dealer, which was the sad part. This was the dealer's diagnosis and recommendation:

Code:
CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS COMING ON

WRONG OIL FILTER

HOOKED UP SDS AND BATTERY CHARGER PREFORMED QUICK TEST FOUND CODE IN ME

P054A00 THE POSITION OF THE EXHAUST CAMSHAFT (CYLINDER BANK 1) DEVIATES FROM SPECIFIED VALUE IN DIRECTION OF ADVANCE DURING COLD START

NOTICED THAT WHEN PULLING CAR IN THE MOTOR WAS UNUSUALLY LOUD

CHECKED OIL LEVEL AND FOUND TO BE SLIGHTLY OVER FULL

CHECKED OIL FILTER AND FOUND WRONG OIL FILTER INSTALLED

THE OIL HAS A SILVER SHEEN TO IT BECAUSE OF INTERNAL DAMAGE DUE TO WRONG OIL FILTER

INSTALLED PROPER OIL FILTER AND CLEARED CODE

ENGINE IS QUIET NOW BUT YOU HEAR A SLIGHT BOTTOM END NOISE

GAVE ESTIMATE FOR ENGINE REPLACEMENT

CUSTOMER DECLINED REPAIRS AT THIS TIME

THE OIL FILTER THAT WAS INSTALLED ON THE CAR WAS FOR A 272 ENGINE THAT WAS IN THIS MODEL UNTIL 2012 THIS CAR HAS A 276 ENGINE

Looking at the oil-filter cap from another MB model and the correct cartridge for this model, I think I finally correctly understand what is going on:

The plastic extension with the small O-ring around it seems to go into a hole in an anti-drain-back valve (ADBV). It looks like they put an hole in the ADBV so that during an oil change, oil behind the ADBV would properly drain and no oil would be left in the valvetrain. If you don't have this extension, such as installing the wrong oil-filter cartridge without the plastic extension, the hole in the ADBV isn't plugged, which is the equivalent of not having an ADBV at all.

By the way the so-called "TSB" from an oil-filter distributor posted above that claimed that the plastic extension props a "valve" open and without it there would be no oil circulating through the engine was another major fake news. On the contrary the plastic extension closes a hole in the anti-drain-back valve, rather than propping it open, as I described above.

Would running the engine without the ADBV for a day ruin the engine? Absolutely no. ADBV's only function is to help cold starts by keeping the oil in the valvetrain when the engine is not running. Indeed, the owner experienced a cold-start issue with the oil-pressure-operated variable valve timing that gave an error code. This won't ruin the engine but could increase cold-start engine wear in the long term.

I agree with other posters that putting the plastic ADBV-hole-plug extension in the oil-filter cartridge is a waste. It should have been kept in the oil-filter cap.

 

[HangFire]

Beating dead horses is what we do here on BITOG. But Gokhan makes the best point, the DEALER was the one screaming engine damage. That is worth discussion.

 

[ltslimjim]

Well, this has gotten complicated. How else could the oil change have caused the problem? Did the dealer take pictures or bother to have the owner see the evidence? Did the oil change have a start without oil added or something?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Beating dead horses is what we do here on BITOG. But Gokhan makes the best point, the DEALER was the one screaming engine damage. That is worth discussion.


There are many threads on multiple forums where dealers will claim one thing and it will turn out to be something else. That's somewhat common. They usually like to jump to the most expensive conclusion first.