Wrong OEM oil filter ruins Mercedes engine

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: CrAlt
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Quote:
.....As to MB: From an engineers perspective; what a stupid design. What were they drinking, much less thinking? Ridiculous....

What's wrong with the design?
I'd of thought it obvious...the old filter fits the new motor all to easily. Perfectly as a matter-of-fact. The result being no oil pressure which means the motor bearings are now Tango Uniform. Scratch one Mercedes motor....

A proper design would have never allowed this when the possibility of mistake results in such severe consequences to the customers car.


You can screw the wrong canister filter on and have a major issue.
SAE/Metric lug/stud miss-match causing wheels to fall off.
Wrong spark plugs that meet up with piston
I am sure people could think of a few other common costly parts screw ups.

The wrong part is the wrong part. Mr cheap skate picked the wrong part.

MB's catalog system tells you the right part at the parts counter.
If he went to a real autoparts place he would have gotten the right part.
If he just let the kid at the QL place scan the vin and provide the filter he would have gotten the right part.



Exactly. Half a billion spark plugs all fit the same thread.

We still get plenty of visits from people who have installed R44 style plugs in place of R43 style plugs and vice versa.

Injectors are another big one. Very interchangeable.

Attention to detail is very necessary. Any person working on a machine who is counting on fitment or lack thereof to be the demarcating line between success or destruction is both an idiot and needs to stop what they are doing and call a professional.

When I did the change in my engine, I had absolutely no clue about what was right or wrong for my engine. How come I'm not in there crying with him like a lunatic? I deferred to those with the best experience, and did my due diligence.

Mercedes has no responsibility to stupid-proof their cars.

 

[Eddie]

Harsh but, the true reality as DoubleWasp said. Ed

 

[KrisZ]

I read the linked thread and there was no mention of a ruined engine. Did I miss something?

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I read the linked thread and there was no mention of a ruined engine. Did I miss something?


Depends how one is to define "ruined" in this situation. The dealer tech noted a "silver sheen" in the engine oil with the old filter and after replacing both the oil and correct installed filter, a low volume noise was still noted in the bottom end of the engine.

Sure I imagine the car is driveable, but for how long? Damage is done, just it is on a slow walk to failure instead of immediate failure.

For all intents, it is "ruined" on the engine as he is not going to get full market value or be able to trade it in or sell as a serviceable vehicle.

 

[LvR]

So to all you Merc drivers ................. I only own an older lowly W168 A class and as I said earlier all cars come with a oil pressure idiot light. So is the higher class Mercs not fitted with such a thing? ................. and if they are and the vehicle was driven with the light on for any distance is it not the owner's (driver's) fault then?........

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I read the linked thread and there was no mention of a ruined engine. Did I miss something?


Depends how one is to define "ruined" in this situation. The dealer tech noted a "silver sheen" in the engine oil with the old filter and after replacing both the oil and correct installed filter, a low volume noise was still noted in the bottom end of the engine.

Sure I imagine the car is driveable, but for how long? Damage is done, just it is on a slow walk to failure instead of immediate failure.

For all intents, it is "ruined" on the engine as he is not going to get full market value or be able to trade it in or sell as a serviceable vehicle.


I think he could probably get away with just trading it in at some 3rd party dealer like carmax. They might not look too closely to notice that the engine is making a little extra noise. In the old days the trick to quiet a noisy engine is to use something like 20w50 or maybe even a 60 weight oil. It sounds like the dealer didn't put it into the VMI so someone else checking the records at an MB dealer won't see that note.

As for the oil pressure, who knows how it's designed. maybe the sensor is before that switch so maybe it never went on. For instance if the purpose is to warn you of an oil pump failure, if the pump is running fine and the sensor is right after the pump, no light, but oil isn't getting to the rest of the engine. It's still an idiot light and can't save you from every possibility.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
.............

I think he could probably get away with just trading it in at some 3rd party dealer like carmax. They might not look too closely to notice that the engine is making a little extra noise. In the old days the trick to quiet a noisy engine is to use something like 20w50 or maybe even a 60 weight oil. It sounds like the dealer didn't put it into the VMI so someone else checking the records at an MB dealer won't see that note.

..............


He probably will as he looks like the shady type that does not want to take responsibility and will pass on a pig in a poke to someone else.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Everything wrong with the world is a millenial's fault.

We lived in the Garden of Eden until Eve (a millenial) ate from the Tree of Life, after being tempted by the Devil (also a millenial).
You're over-generalizing. Evidently I touched a sore spot. There's plenty of blame to go around to the first-wave of BB's as well. But odds are this dude didn't belong in that group.

I'll expand to perhaps a Gen-X/Y/Z'er....

His sentence structure & use of language gives him up.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Quote:
....I'd of thought it obvious...the old filter fits the new motor all to easily.

If it had been obvious 'to me' I wouldn't have asked the question so as not to waste your valuable time. Based on the condescending reply, in hindsight a poor decision on my part to make the query include a specific quote rather than asked as a general question using the OP's re: as reply name. A lesson learned for me here too.
The reason it was obvious to me was because I read all the links, on both sites + the MB TSB.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Attention to detail is very necessary. Any person working on a machine who is counting on fitment or lack thereof to be the demarcating line between success or destruction is both an idiot and needs to stop what they are doing and call a professional.

When I did the change in my engine, I had absolutely no clue about what was right or wrong for my engine. How come I'm not in there crying with him like a lunatic? I deferred to those with the best experience, and did my due diligence.

Mercedes has no responsibility to stupid-proof their cars.


Exactly!

This is interesting because I ran into something similar when doing an oil change on my neighbor's 2004 BMW 330xi for the first time. I bought the correct MANN filter at WalMart, but little did I know someone had swapped the filters in the boxes. When changing the filter, I luckily had the thought to compare them side by side, and the new one was clearly too short. I had to make another trip back and get another one, and upon comparing the returned one and new one in the store they were different. I told the returns people what happened, who knows if they actually did anything though.

 

[bigjl]

I am no apologist for Mercedes.

But can't see how they can be in any way to blame.

The only way Mercexes could be to blame is if a Mercedes Dealer workshop had used the wrong filter due to a mistake on the parts database.

Even then basic engineering practice would be to compare the part coming off with the one going on.

Any differences then a check is made to see of the part has been updated in some way or if the part is wrong.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver


His sentence structure & use of language gives him up.


I only said that because you missed the far more likely generalization that he's just a Mercedes driver.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
The reason it was obvious to me was because I read all the links, on both sites

Congratulations and good for you. I read the link posted after my query too, so what. Wasting bandwidth posting it again unnecessary for me.

And clearly based on a significant amount of replies here (several after the response to my question) many generally agree that it's not quite so obvious a reason or explanation. That includes but not limited to the previously multiple quoted member(CrAlt) to whom I replied. So apparently I'm not alone in that observation or opinion.

However if being surly in presenting your opinion makes you feel better somehow, guess that's your right.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
This is interesting because I ran into something similar when doing an oil change on my neighbor's 2004 BMW 330xi for the first time. I bought the correct MANN filter at WalMart, but little did I know someone had swapped the filters in the boxes. When changing the filter, I luckily had the thought to compare them side by side, and the new one was clearly too short. I had to make another trip back and get another one, and upon comparing the returned one and new one in the store they were different. I told the returns people what happened, who knows if they actually did anything though.

Your Walmart carries Mann filters?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
The reason it was obvious to me was because I read all the links, on both sites + the MB TSB.




If that's the difference in the filters the guy that did the job was either stoned or stupid for not knowing something was wrong. Customer provided filter or not.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
I am no apologist for Mercedes.

But can't see how they can be in any way to blame.

The only way Mercexes could be to blame is if a Mercedes Dealer workshop had used the wrong filter due to a mistake on the parts database.

Even then basic engineering practice would be to compare the part coming off with the one going on.

Any differences then a check is made to see of the part has been updated in some way or if the part is wrong.


If a catastrophic damage can incur if the old filter is used, you should design the new filter housing in a way that the old filter doesn't fit. Put a notch or something.

This is not a foreign concept to car makers -- their electrical connectors are designed in such a way.

 

[Gokhan]

My take:

This TSB isn't written by MB. I'm not sure what to make of it.

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=358805&d=1500146124

The "valve" is clearly an anti-drain-back valve. We all know that less than a psi of oil pressure is enough to push them open. Certainly that flimsy plastic piece can't apply any more psi than that.

So, I would think that even without an oil filter, there would be no engine problem.

The owner took the car to a second shop and they assured him that there was no engine damage. If you had oil starvation, his engine would have been ruined.

The engine code he got that started all this seemed to be a cold-start issue.

Perhaps MB found out that there was some problem during cold starts with the anti-drain-back valve (ADBV) and they decided to add this ad hoc plastic extension to eliminate the ADBV operation. It's very bizarre. In any case I doubt there is any engine damage.

 

[supton]

I thought going to paper-only filters was to reduce waste? Then they go and add on a plastic bit.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: supton
I thought going to paper-only filters was to reduce waste? Then they go and add on a plastic bit.

I'm not sure exactly what an MB filter is made out of, the cheap aftermarket ones are paper, but MB claims theirs are some kind of synthetic material which is why they last 10K+. Maybe polyester.

 

[supton]

Hmm, could be. I thought they were all paper.

I guess just getting rid of metal does make for less waste. But still. I still think this is going backwards, at least in terms of waste.

Plus, my Toyota filters are rated for 10k too. Pretty sure they are just paper elements, but I could be wrong, I never bothered to look up what they are (they sure feel like paper).