Will they ever go to a -5 w Oil?
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It may just be me wanting to change everything, but I believe that it would be better to have an absolute scale instead of the convoluted SAE scale.
The 0w- spec and afaik, the others were tweaked lower some time ago. I don't think there is a need either. Remember, not all 0w- grades are the same. To make a 0w-20 spec is much lower standard than a 0w-40, as far as cold-cranking.
Since we already can make 0w40, a fairly wide range, it seems that -5W20 should not be hard to make??
If 20 or 30 weight oil is nearly perfect for lubricity and circulating well when hot, then an oil that maintains the same
flow characteristics as it cooled, it would be about a -50W20.
Some technical articles have made it appear that might be ideal.
The extensive tests that GM/Mobil and others financed and published years ago made note that most cylinder wall wear occurs during the lengthy time that it takes for oil to flow well. When hot, the rod bearings throw a virtual shower of oil onto the cylinder walls and wear is virtually nil.
When the oil is cold and thick, it is often 10 to 15 seconds between each drop flying out of the rod bearing, and this drop usually flies downward, sideways or even straight up into the center of the piston, but not unto the cylinder wall! (remember, the rod bearing clearance is only .002, try pouring a quart of cold oil into your crankcase through an oil cap that is only loosened 1/20th of a turn.)
Anyway, I would welcome an oil that attempted that. As noted in earlier posts, my cars using 0W20 have lasted much longer than my previous cars, now nearing 300K miles on engines that burn no oil and run and act like new. The "identical cars" that I was running 10W30 or 10W40 in were suffering from oil consumption by 150K and teardowns revealed very high cylinder wall wear at that time.
If 20 or 30 weight oil is nearly perfect for lubricity and circulating well when hot, then an oil that maintains the same
flow characteristics as it cooled, it would be about a -50W20.
Some technical articles have made it appear that might be ideal.
The extensive tests that GM/Mobil and others financed and published years ago made note that most cylinder wall wear occurs during the lengthy time that it takes for oil to flow well. When hot, the rod bearings throw a virtual shower of oil onto the cylinder walls and wear is virtually nil.
When the oil is cold and thick, it is often 10 to 15 seconds between each drop flying out of the rod bearing, and this drop usually flies downward, sideways or even straight up into the center of the piston, but not unto the cylinder wall! (remember, the rod bearing clearance is only .002, try pouring a quart of cold oil into your crankcase through an oil cap that is only loosened 1/20th of a turn.)
Anyway, I would welcome an oil that attempted that. As noted in earlier posts, my cars using 0W20 have lasted much longer than my previous cars, now nearing 300K miles on engines that burn no oil and run and act like new. The "identical cars" that I was running 10W30 or 10W40 in were suffering from oil consumption by 150K and teardowns revealed very high cylinder wall wear at that time.
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Didn't we just go over this?? I mean, I'm all for another round
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1280273#Post1280273
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1280273#Post1280273
Originally Posted By: fsskier
Since we already can make 0w40, a fairly wide range, it seems that -5W20 should not be hard to make??
If 20 or 30 weight oil is nearly perfect for lubricity and circulating well when hot, then an oil that maintains the same
flow characteristics as it cooled, it would be about a -50W20.
Some technical articles have made it appear that might be ideal.
The extensive tests that GM/Mobil and others financed and published years ago made note that most cylinder wall wear occurs during the lengthy time that it takes for oil to flow well. When hot, the rod bearings throw a virtual shower of oil onto the cylinder walls and wear is virtually nil.
When the oil is cold and thick, it is often 10 to 15 seconds between each drop flying out of the rod bearing, and this drop usually flies downward, sideways or even straight up into the center of the piston, but not unto the cylinder wall! (remember, the rod bearing clearance is only .002, try pouring a quart of cold oil into your crankcase through an oil cap that is only loosened 1/20th of a turn.)
Anyway, I would welcome an oil that attempted that. As noted in earlier posts, my cars using 0W20 have lasted much longer than my previous cars, now nearing 300K miles on engines that burn no oil and run and act like new. The "identical cars" that I was running 10W30 or 10W40 in were suffering from oil consumption by 150K and teardowns revealed very high cylinder wall wear at that time.
My cousin is still running my Chevy K2500 pick-up,it's a 1990 and has had a steady diet of M1 10w03 it's entire life and it's nearing 400k if it isn't over by now. Consumptiom is maybe a quart in 4k,been that way for 3/4 of it's life.
Since we already can make 0w40, a fairly wide range, it seems that -5W20 should not be hard to make??
If 20 or 30 weight oil is nearly perfect for lubricity and circulating well when hot, then an oil that maintains the same
flow characteristics as it cooled, it would be about a -50W20.
Some technical articles have made it appear that might be ideal.
The extensive tests that GM/Mobil and others financed and published years ago made note that most cylinder wall wear occurs during the lengthy time that it takes for oil to flow well. When hot, the rod bearings throw a virtual shower of oil onto the cylinder walls and wear is virtually nil.
When the oil is cold and thick, it is often 10 to 15 seconds between each drop flying out of the rod bearing, and this drop usually flies downward, sideways or even straight up into the center of the piston, but not unto the cylinder wall! (remember, the rod bearing clearance is only .002, try pouring a quart of cold oil into your crankcase through an oil cap that is only loosened 1/20th of a turn.)
Anyway, I would welcome an oil that attempted that. As noted in earlier posts, my cars using 0W20 have lasted much longer than my previous cars, now nearing 300K miles on engines that burn no oil and run and act like new. The "identical cars" that I was running 10W30 or 10W40 in were suffering from oil consumption by 150K and teardowns revealed very high cylinder wall wear at that time.
My cousin is still running my Chevy K2500 pick-up,it's a 1990 and has had a steady diet of M1 10w03 it's entire life and it's nearing 400k if it isn't over by now. Consumptiom is maybe a quart in 4k,been that way for 3/4 of it's life.
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fsskier said:When the oil is cold and thick, it is often 10 to 15 seconds between each drop flying out of the rod bearing, and this drop usually flies downward, sideways or even straight up into the center of the piston, but not unto the cylinder wall!I'm sorry. Not meaning to offend, but 10 to 15 seconds? In Alaska, the North Pole, and the surface of the moon out of the sun maybe. OW and 5W oils flow in an instant down to zero. Not two seconds, not 5 seconds. Not in a healthy engine. And certainly not in the engines that use the oils we're talking about here. Please. Five and ten and fifteen seconds to flow would shred an engine in no time at all. Even the most heavily fortified oils couldn't leave enough additive behind after nighttime drain-down to cover dry-start conditions of that duration. Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm all ears, but that statement paints with a wide brush.
And I'm wrong with my assumptions on THAT one, to show I mean no offense, I'll send you Wix spin-on of your choice on me, FSS.
If you're wrong, I'll expect nothing in return but your complete, utter contempt!
toocrazy2yoo said:fsskier said:When the oil is cold and thick, it is often 10 to 15 seconds between each drop flying out of the rod bearing, and this drop usually flies downward, sideways or even straight up into the center of the piston, but not unto the cylinder wall!I'm sorry. Not meaning to offend, but 10 to 15 seconds? In Alaska, the North Pole, and the surface of the moon out of the sun maybe. OW and 5W oils flow in an instant down to zero. Not 5 and 10 and 15 seconds. Not in a healthy engine. And certainly not in the engines that use the oils we're talking about here. Please. Five and ten and fifteen seconds to flow would shred an engine in no time at all. Even the most heavily fortified oils couldn't leave enough additive behind after nighttime drain-down to cover dry-start conditions of that duration. Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm all ears, but that statement paints with a wide brush.
And if I'm wrong with my assumptions on THAT one, to show I mean no offense, I'll send you Wix spin-on of your choice on me, FSS.
If you're wrong, I'll expect nothing in return but your complete, utter contempt!
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Apparently you misunderstand the issue here. Of course the oil starts flowing instantly, the positive flow oil pump insures that. Sadly, it almost all goes through the relief valve when cold. The bearings re also pressurized instantly, but the oil that flows THROUGH the rod bearings (remember, .002 clearance)
is nil when oil is thick. The cylinder walls depend on this oil for lubrication.
Your argument is not with me, it is simple physics, backed by ample published data in the SAE journal, from respected sources.
They have gone so far as to use blocks, pistons, rings, etc
with various radioactive isotopes so that instantaneous wear can be measured. In some instances the wear during the first 3 miles exceed that of the next 50 miles.
With older motors we used to drop the pan, remove the distributor and chuck up the Dist shaft with an electric drill and spin the oil pump to look for bad bearings - with oil pan removed. If you ever do this, you will immediately see how little cold oil flows hrough a good bearing. Or how much flows through one that has failed!!!!!
My daily drive is exactly 3 miles, in a vehicle that sits outside. Now of course I do not need to use the oil that would be best for this situation, but then why would I read engineering articles, or BITOG??
Someone on another thread said " you never turn a car off below -35 degrees anyway" wow, where do they get that information??? When skiing at Jackson Hole, Wyoming, we had official temperatures -43 to -47 every day for a week!
With 0W20 our car started (with many howls, growls and screeching noises) each morning, many others burned up starters, and also found that the 3 garages in town cannot help the 10,000 skiers with some sort of tar-motor oil in their engines!!!
is nil when oil is thick. The cylinder walls depend on this oil for lubrication.
Your argument is not with me, it is simple physics, backed by ample published data in the SAE journal, from respected sources.
They have gone so far as to use blocks, pistons, rings, etc
with various radioactive isotopes so that instantaneous wear can be measured. In some instances the wear during the first 3 miles exceed that of the next 50 miles.
With older motors we used to drop the pan, remove the distributor and chuck up the Dist shaft with an electric drill and spin the oil pump to look for bad bearings - with oil pan removed. If you ever do this, you will immediately see how little cold oil flows hrough a good bearing. Or how much flows through one that has failed!!!!!
My daily drive is exactly 3 miles, in a vehicle that sits outside. Now of course I do not need to use the oil that would be best for this situation, but then why would I read engineering articles, or BITOG??
Someone on another thread said " you never turn a car off below -35 degrees anyway" wow, where do they get that information??? When skiing at Jackson Hole, Wyoming, we had official temperatures -43 to -47 every day for a week!
With 0W20 our car started (with many howls, growls and screeching noises) each morning, many others burned up starters, and also found that the 3 garages in town cannot help the 10,000 skiers with some sort of tar-motor oil in their engines!!!
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: fsskier
Someone on another thread said " you never turn a car off below -35 degrees anyway" wow, where do they get that information??? When skiing at Jackson Hole, Wyoming, we had official temperatures -43 to -47 every day for a week!
With 0W20 our car started (with many howls, growls and screeching noises)
Those strange noises you hear under the hood on a cold start in the winter are most likely not from the engine, but from the accessories.
Someone on another thread said " you never turn a car off below -35 degrees anyway" wow, where do they get that information??? When skiing at Jackson Hole, Wyoming, we had official temperatures -43 to -47 every day for a week!
With 0W20 our car started (with many howls, growls and screeching noises)
Those strange noises you hear under the hood on a cold start in the winter are most likely not from the engine, but from the accessories.
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