Will MMO+5w50 kill or clean the engine.

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: SanProsan
I might need some confirmation on this, but isn't 5w50 castrol is loaded with additives?


I know it used to be back when it was called "classic car formula" or something like that. It now no longer advertises high zinc on the label. I have no idea if it's not the same as the others or not.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Given that MMO is a "subtractive" (ooposite of additive, it dilutes additives and thins), I wouldn't go too hard substituting it for real oil.


Very droll and very true.
If the engine really needs cleaning, the OP could try a product that doesn't include the word "mystery" in its name.
Plenty of known good ones out there.

 

[CentAmDL650]

I would use one 5W50 with 5W30 to counteract the thinning effects of MMO. But remember, it's winter/ colder temperatures now, so your oil temperature won't get as high, thus your oil's operating viscosity won't thin out as much. Winter is the best time to run a short OCI with MMO for cleaning.

To Shannow's remarks about being a "subtractive" additive, how does the 900 ppm tricresyl phosphate AW additive affect this?

And my own experience has been quite good using MMO on short ~1000 mile OCI to unstick rings and reduce consumption. Went from 1 quart make up oil per 1800 miles to 1 quart per 4500 miles. After a good bit of intervening mileage the consumption went up to 1 quart per 2000 miles, so I'm currently doing another short OCI with MMO to get it back to a more reasonable rate. I have no fear of using it, and believe subsequent reduction in consumption and good UOAs prove the naysayers wrong (and ignorant).

Also, I listened to so many who said to use a high mileage oil to clean the rings and reduce consumption, but after 4 OCI's on M1 5W30 HM it only went from 1 quart per 1200 miles to 1 quart per 1800 miles. The improvement was positively glacial and did not save me much money on make up oil like a cleaning cycle with MMO did.

 

[Oro_O]

I would be ok with your plan.

I have used MMO; it does it's job as advertised, but it does thin things down a lot. I used it with 4qts PP 5w30:1qt MMO and it was very thin when drained. I think the 50 would balance it better. I'd use 1qt MMO in your sump but go to the full mark (so 3.5:1?).

Fleet cars in my expereince are very well maintained; company required maintenance to be performed. Unless you know it to be otherwise, I'd generally assume a fleet vehicle to be better maintained than the average privately owned car.

I agree with CentAm... Using oil to address a ring issue is SLOW process. Much better to attack a known issue directly; I have used piston soaks, MMO, and ATF in the sump to clean, all with good effects.

 

[69GTX]

A friend of mine who is no Bitoger has been using a concoction of regular dino oils + MMO + Rislone for every oil change going back 10-20 years. He says it's been optimum for his high mileage used vehicles which is all he ever buys. Nothing is ever bought with less than 100K miles and they typically go to the 200K-300K before he sells them. Being in SoCal certainly makes it easier to do that.

 

[Pontual]

Are you having dirt side effects like lifter clack or something, or youre cleaning just for profilatic measures? MMO is a good product for that, but d start with a higher W base, like a 15w40 nd thin it out with the MMO. A wide spread multigrade 5w50 would have a bigger beating over the abundant VII than a 15w40 would, IMO.

 

[Clubber_Lang]

MMO is good stuff.
Google Oil Viscosity calculator to figure out which weight to use. Personally Id say use a 15w-40 dual rated oil. The lack of wide spread in between 15 and 40 should keep it more stable when blended. Thats what i used in my Ford 4.9 straight 6 to get a 5w-30. Plus its cheap.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

It does have some boron and phosphorus for AW, so it doesn't totally dilute AW performance as some have said.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Here's my put on MMO's MSDS:

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)

Serves mostly as base oil.


29% Mineral Spirits

General cleaner and solvent.


38 parts per million (ppm) Boron

Mild AW/EP agent, friction reducer


900 ppm Phosporous

AW/EP agent


1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene

A very good cleaner/solvent for varnish.


1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene

A very good cleaner/solvent for varnish.


Oil of wintergreen - for the scent

Oil of Wintergreen is in there solely for the SCENT to mask solvent smell. Not enough in there to aid lubricity.


Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff

For Sure.


Also, looks like having about 25% MMO in the sump drops a 50 oil to a 30:

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
With MMO's KV100 of 2.64cSt the main effect as far as I can see of adding MMO to engine oil is too reduce the viscosity.
Added to a 10cSt 30wt oil at the maximum dosage of 25% would give you a very light 20wt 7.0cSt oil.
Added to a heavy 30wt oil like GC will still reduce the viscosity to that of a 20wt 8.0cSt oil.
Added to a 40wt like M1 0W-40 would still result in a 20wt 8.6cSt oil.

What I would really like to know is what the KV40 spec' is for MMO. This would provide the viscosity index which I suspect it is quite low, in the 100 area. If I'm right, not only are you reducing the operating viscosity of the oil when you add MMO but also the oil's VI. If that's the case, one would be better off adding an ultra high VI (216) oil like the Toyota 0W-20. In so doing, you'll be reducing the operating viscosity but also increasing the oil's VI, thereby reducing the start-up viscosity disproportionately.

Using the GC example, 25% Toyota 0W-20 would still leave you with a reasonable heavy 11.1cSt, 3.3cP HTHSV 0W-30 oil but with the VI improved from 166 to about 178.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Using the Widman mixing viscosity calculator, I get a KV100=10.5, if using Castrol Edge 5w-50 (assuming its 18.0) and 25% MMO of 2.64.

So it becomes a 30 weight oil warm. Caterham's arguments about VI loss means it might end up being a 10w-30 (??).

 

[GR_CoB]

Perfect. Definitely doing it! There is a lifter tick at low rpms and a little bit of shaking going on at idle when in Reverse or Drive. Now got srt 0w40 in the sump. Will see if that does any cleaning and then pour this combo for about 3k maybe, based on some comments. Then back to Srt 0w40 until supplies last.

 

[GR_CoB]

And before anyone mentions it - idle air control valve and throttle body are clean as they can be.

 

[ryanschillinger]

If you want to clean the engine, use Berryman. But pour it in your engine when cold. Start it and let it get warmed up before doing the oil change. Just idle speed, no driving. That's always worked for me. I've run a quart of MMO with 3 quarts of regular oil in my old Nissan Frontier for a full 5k oci with no ill effects also. Used MMO in power steering in my 69 ltd and it made he pump quieter and smoother. Maybe save the MMO for the gas and other stuff like that, and use something else as a flush.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Using the Widman mixing viscosity calculator, I get a KV100=10.5, if using Castrol Edge 5w-50 (assuming its 18.0) and 25% MMO of 2.64.

So it becomes a 30 weight oil warm. Caterham's arguments about VI loss means it might end up being a 10w-30 (??).


VI has NOTHING to do with it becoming a 10W, 5W, or 20W...they are MRV and CCS values at specific temperatures...look at M1 0W30 and 5W30 for an example...near identical KV40, KV100, and therefore VI, but one's a 0W, the other a 5W.

Can't tell anything about the W rating from VI.

 

[BrocLuno]

MMO won't hurt a thing. Been using this same formula (not the 5W-50 part) for decades. No harm, no foul. I prefer Rislone for cleaning, but the price has gotten nutty, so MMO is next up to bat.

4 qts motor oil and 1 qt MMO (or Rislone) and run it the full 3,000 OCI (short, for cleaning...). Do it again. Then run whatever you plan to use regularly and watch the oil consumption... If higher than expected, try a ring soak with B-12 or Break free, or whatever ...

You'll get there. None of this is really "aggressive" like say carb cleaner

 

[Shannow]

BrocLuno, I've got M1 5W50 and Rislone in my mower at present.

 

[Pontual]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Using the Widman mixing viscosity calculator, I get a KV100=10.5, if using Castrol Edge 5w-50 (assuming its 18.0) and 25% MMO of 2.64.

So it becomes a 30 weight oil warm. Caterham's arguments about VI loss means it might end up being a 10w-30 (??).


VI has NOTHING to do with it becoming a 10W, 5W, or 20W...they are MRV and CCS values at specific temperatures...look at M1 0W30 and 5W30 for an example...near identical KV40, KV100, and therefore VI, but one's a 0W, the other a 5W.

Can't tell anything about the W rating from VI.


Jes, cant you tell the VI from the multi rating spread if an oil is 0w40 and the other is same type of base oil but 15w40, cant you tell the wider has more VI(I). You are putting the headlights at the back here, as usual, just to be of the contrary.

Starting with a thicker base and consequently cutting on VII, is a good measure on dilution side of MMO

 

[Shannow]

Pontual,
yes, if you gave me the KV40, KV100, and HTHS, I could tell you which one is more likely to be a 0W/5W40 than a 15W40. It's more an artifact of how these are built...light basestocks, and buckets of plastic.

If you gave me the same data for the Mobil 0W30 and 5W30 (10W30 too for a lesser extent), you couldn't guess which of the two was 0W or 5W.

But the premise was that by lowering the KV100 and KV40 with a light oil of VI about 100, you could make an assessment of the "W" grade moving up based on viscosity index.

 

[ToadU]

I do not understand the wanting to "clean" an engine. Please don't run any MMO in an engine that runs well. You did not describe any run-ability issues in your post. You stated you just feel it's dirty and want to do flushes. I have said this many times and have much experience in all types of engines---flushes are to be avoided. If there is some carbon or sludge in the engine and you break it up all it takes is a small piece to plug an oil channel and good by engine. I have seen people doing flushes kill an engine. If the engine runs well please just change the oil and filter based on the owner's manual. Also, there isn't any automobile engine I am aware of the specs a 5w50--not even heavy duty class 8 truck engines. Use the oil specified in your owner's manual for the temperature conditions you are operating in. Using a non approved weight is just asking for problems. Trust in the engineering that went into the vehcile. This of course is JMHO but also based on facts. You will never find an owner's manual suggesting MMO or any other repair in a bottle majic additive and for good reason.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
I do not understand the wanting to "clean" an engine. Please don't run any MMO in an engine that runs well. You did not describe any run-ability issues in your post. You stated you just feel it's dirty and want to do flushes. I have said this many times and have much experience in all types of engines---flushes are to be avoided. If there is some carbon or sludge in the engine and you break it up all it takes is a small piece to plug an oil channel and good by engine. I have seen people doing flushes kill an engine. If the engine runs well please just change the oil and filter based on the owner's manual. Also, there isn't any automobile engine I am aware of the specs a 5w50--not even heavy duty class 8 truck engines. Use the oil specified in your owner's manual for the temperature conditions you are operating in. Using a non approved weight is just asking for problems. Trust in the engineering that went into the vehcile. This of course is JMHO but also based on facts. You will never find an owner's manual suggesting MMO or any other repair in a bottle majic additive and for good reason.


I'm pretty much in agreement here. Of note, the Track Pack version of the Mustang GT spec'd 5w-50 as did the Shelby cars.

 

[andyd]

It won't kill. Read the label and follow the directions. It may clean. I use a pint to thin out the BMW's dino 20W50 for the winter. The "mystery " is definitely part of the allure. So is the wintergreen, salicyllic something or other, liniment, all part of the presentation. Patent medicine for cars in a time when horses were still used.

I use it religiously in my small engine fuel. It seems to keep the carbs clean. I also religiously, run the carbs dry after every use. Whatever,the engines seem to start easier, and run smoother. When I used as directed in the 528e, it made the car peppier. Even MDW remarked about it.

Also as a general purpose free-er-upper and light lube.And air tool lube.
Other than B-12 it is the only stuff I add to gas/oil. Chem- Tool has cleaned out a few carbs for me too.