Why the push for Autonomous driving?

I also think cell phones should mandated to have some sort of device built into them that's prevents them from being used by a driver while driving. This would also reduce insurance rates, and make the roads much safer...


Apple does have a driving setting under their Focus settings. The person has to enable it but if it detects that you are driving then notifications are muted.

I just do it the old fashioned way. I don’t pay attention to the iPhone when I’m driving. But I’m old.
 
Apple does have a driving setting under their Focus settings. The person has to enable it but if it detects that you are driving then notifications are muted.

I just do it the old fashioned way. I don’t pay attention to the iPhone when I’m driving. But I’m old.
These features are left to the discretion of the phone owner, which is no good. Nobody is going to be willingly disable their phone while they're driving, or they'd be doing that now. Most people are too stupid/stubborn to ignore their phones while driving, which is why the disable function needs to come from big brother...you are an exception to the rule...
 
These features are left to the discretion of the phone owner, which is no good. Nobody is going to be willingly disable their phone while they're driving, or they'd be doing that now. Most people are too stupid/stubborn to ignore their phones while driving, which is why the disable function needs to come from big brother...you are an exception to the rule...


I understand that but I think that having that option is actually better than having the iPhone unresponsive during a drive. Sometimes another person like my wife will answer calls or messages. So there is that aspect.

There is of course the hands free option which is prevalent. I can click my earbud and take the call without taking my eyes off the road.
 
These features are left to the discretion of the phone owner, which is no good. Nobody is going to be willingly disable their phone while they're driving, or they'd be doing that now. Most people are too stupid/stubborn to ignore their phones while driving, which is why the disable function needs to come from big brother...you are an exception to the rule...
I connect to my car and using Apple CarPlay requires me to use voice activation and limited features through the car’s touch screen. I can use voice to text, make calls, and use it for podcasts and music. Beyond that I don’t need phone access behind the wheel.
 
I understand that but I think that having that option is actually better than having the iPhone unresponsive during a drive. Sometimes another person like my wife will answer calls or messages. So there is that aspect.

There is of course the hands free option which is prevalent. I can click my earbud and take the call without taking my eyes off the road.
It wouldn't have to be completely unresponsive, just so the driver can't text with it, or do anything manually with the phone...
 
I worry that one day, 40 years from now, I'll be in my self-driving car going to see the family and suddenly have a heart attack. Then, the car keeps driving to the destination with my dead body in it. It pulls up at their house, my grandkids see the car pull up... "Yay, grandpa is here!" 😳
It is much easier to detect someone with a health condition and call 911 for you than self driving a car on public road. Actually we already have that in Apple Watch and many others in development. Much easier to call your doctor and tell them you are about to have a stroke than AFTER you have one, and much cheaper for insurance and rate payer too.
 
It takes a long time for someone to understand what everything is.

If you take a jungle man from Amazon, teach him how to drive in a driving class, give him a license to drive in San Francisco, he will probably get stuck in wet concrete too. This, is basically what AI is today.

Thing is, a human has 16 years to learn common sense and be a human before getting his driver's license. AI hasn't done that for 16 years yet and was only taught how to drive. Now that we have learned what wet concrete is, maybe the AI model needs to upgrade for that.

Maybe that's why we need a "subscription" so they are constantly updated. Imagine someone with a self driving AI from 10 years prior making all sorts of mistakes and not updated with the latest rules and common senses... I think subscription is probably a safer bet. Think on the positive side, if it is subscription and they found out they need to swap out the $10k processing unit because it is not powerful enough for common sense, it won't cost the user a dime. If you paid $10k for that unit and it is rendered useless, you are out $10k for nothing.
 
It's a funny thing. On one hand Insurance companies will raise the rates on non autonomous vehicles through the roof. I can see there being autonomous vehicles only highways. Autonomous vehicles don't need traffic lights or stop signs if all the other vehicles are autonomous. On the other hand if it all works well, Insurance companies are not necessary. Will they won't regulate insurance companies into obsolescence?

In 100 years the model you fear of no ownership will be very real. There will be clubs that own tracks or have access to old abandoned roads and highways that you can join and self-drive. It will be a hobby or something people do on date night.
Manually driven cars will be the new stick shifts, then eventually horses. That's basically it.

Insurance is a program to pool together people who can't afford the risk. It is not a magical way to pay for things or a magical way to suck your money away from you. If there is one way to reduce 80% of accidents, it will be the deciding factor in who is paying for what, just like your accident history decide how much you pay for your insurance today. Ask someone from 100 years ago different people from different county and age pays different rate, or people who had been in accident in the past 5 years pay more for insurance, they would say it is unfair too, but today we just think of it as common sense.

The reason insurance rate would be different is because these cars would hopefully reduce accident. If it increase accidents then they would obviously pay more, like how insurance companies ask you to buy different insurance if you use your car for Uber because you drive more and is more likely to be in accidents.

Non self driving cars would be like stick shift, and people would likely not buy them because driving in traffic is annoying vs just sit there and let it drive for you. It would likely start with self driving being a feature you can use instead of cars that must only be self driven, then when nobody wants to drive they will become options that cost more, and then finally only reserved for sports cars, then a track car, and becomes a horse like today.
 
As a lover of driving who had at least one manual transmission car for my entire life until very recently, I do not have any issues with driver assistance tech or even fully autonomous driving. My profession requires that I often investigate accidents or even cite poor driving, and after 11yrs I can honestly say the average person is a mediocre driver at best, and a large proportion of the population are downright terrible. Autonimous driving, once perfected, will indeed improve safety on our roadways.

Remember guys, autonomous driving is not for car people, its for everyone else, and it will only keep everyone else from colliding with us car people. Also, by the time the "government" has the means to outlaw conventionally driven automobiles, we'll (those of us on this forum reading this thread) will likely be dead or retired in a home without a license.

I recently purchased a new daily drive that came equipped with a semi-autonomous driving mode. At first I thought I'd never use such a feature, but now I find myself using almost every time I'm on the highway, unless I'm in a hurry or just want to drive like a jackass. Its nice to be able to zone out for 15 seconds while I respond to a message, or take a bite of food. Its also nice to have a second set of eyes watching out for you, even when you are driving the car yourself.

When I want the full experience, I take the Mustang out of the garage and go for a drive.
 
There's always going to be a driver side or someone who has control of vehicle operation.

Ah, no. A fully autonomous level 5 vehicle could have absolutely no controls at all for any of the occupants. In fact, there may come a point when no one in the vehicle has to have a driver's license. Like getting into an electric automated Taxi. You tell it where you want it to go and it goes there. And, the only thing that the vehicle will do initially is verify that the individual requesting the ride has the authority to be requesting the ride. In other words, is either the owner of the vehicle or someone who has properly provided a way for the toll for usage of the vehicle to be paid.


It may even be that you could tell your vehicle that it has permission to provide a ride for a child with no adult accompanying them. Such as but not limited to taking a child to or from a school, or a school function, without an adult accompanimet.

Also, when Vehicles become fully autonomous it may very well be that there is provided means for watching television, movies, computer usage, or even sleeping while the vehicle goes about it's chore of transporting any occupants.

Fully autonomous, means fully autonomous. The vehicle provides all decisions and the individual being transported is not involved in driving the vehicle in any manner whatsoever. They are passenger. Nothing more than a passenger. Also, fully autonomous vehicles will be able to go to maintenance facilities such as a dealer, or an independent provider of maintenance without anyone being in the vehicle to and from the maintenance facility.

When all vehicles on public roads are fully autonomous and able to be fully autonomous regardless of all conditions that they may encounter, then traffic lights will be an antique thing of the past. Vehicles will negotiate intersections without stopping when there is no necessity to stop. In other words never waiting on a red light when there's nothing coming on the other roads that intersect the intersection. In fact, Vehicles will go through intersections timed so that they just miss other vehicles if that is what is required to get all the vehicles flowing through the intersection with minimum delay of each vehicle. Fully autonomous, means fully autonomous. And when Vehicles reach that level they will be able to do things that cannot be done today. But the biggest benefit, will be the drastic reduction in vehicle fatalities and injuries that we put up with nowadays.

Think about how often everyone who rides in a vehicle nowadays is endangered by other people who are out there driving under the influence, or distracted, or driving a vehicle that is mechanically unsafe, or basically just a bad driver. Every time you get in a vehicle nowadays and you go out on public roads you are subjected to the safety hazards that these individuals exposure you and yours to. That will be a thing of the past.

BTW, the reduction of insurance premiums from the extremely drastic reduction of fatalities and injuries and damage to the vehicles, will go a long way to supplement the cost of keeping vehicles on the road (or possibly in the air) in full autonomous usage.

Fully autonomous will be as big of a game changer as the difference between horses and Automobiles.

But we are only at level 2 now, and we have a long way to go before we get to level five.

People who do not understand that this is possible in the future, and may think that it is some kind of a pipe dream that is totally impossible, probably also do not have any understanding of how fast computers can execute commands nowadays. And because computers can execute so many commands in such a short amount of time it is just a matter of getting the software written to do this job and then inputting the proper sensing of what's going on to this software. What's really nice about all of this is that once the software is developed it can easily be distributed in extremely large distribution worldwide. Yes, it's millions of man hours of software writing, maybe even billions of man hours of software writing. But, work is being done to get all this accomplished. Eventually it will happen.
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By the way, we were only at level two now. So don't think that anything some salesperson says about their vehicle be it Musk or someone else of any car manufacturer tells you about their vehicles ability to be self-driving is really a full autonomous self-driving vehicle. It is not. We are at level two not level five. And people who try to use vehicles that are at level two for full autonomous driving are the ones who end up getting killed.

You'll know it's a full level 5 capable vehicle when it comes with no steering wheel no brake pedal no gas pedal and just a microphone to tell it where to go at the beginning of the trip before it ever starts moving, or to make a change in destination sometime during the trip, and a means of verifying that you have the authority to be requesting the ride.

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Full autonomous level 5 will be great when it is finally developed but we're not there yet.
 
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I think Level 5 will come soon, but it will be a "cheat" using pre-determined roads, on commercial vehicles. There's money to be saved in commercial vehicles, so they can afford better and more Lidar and AI chips, and can drive slower (no need to do rest stop so it can drive slower to save fuel) and stay on the road longer per trip (instead of 10 hours per driver per day, it can drive 24 hours non stop).
 
Ah, no. A fully autonomous level 5 vehicle could have absolutely no controls at all for any of the occupants. In fact, there may come a point when no one in the vehicle has to have a driver's license. Like getting into an electric automated Taxi. You tell it where you want it to go and it goes there. And, the only thing that the vehicle will do initially is verify that the individual requesting the ride has the authority to be requesting the ride. In other words, is either the owner of the vehicle or someone who has properly provided a way for the toll for usage of the vehicle to be paid.


It may even be that you could tell your vehicle that it has permission to provide a ride for a child with no adult accompanying them. Such as but not limited to taking a child to or from a school, or a school function, without an adult accompanimet.

Also, when Vehicles become fully autonomous it may very well be that there is provided means for watching television, movies, computer usage, or even sleeping while the vehicle goes about it's chore of transporting any occupants.

Fully autonomous, means fully autonomous. The vehicle provides all decisions and the individual being transported is not involved in driving the vehicle in any manner whatsoever. They are passenger. Nothing more than a passenger. Also, fully autonomous vehicles will be able to go to maintenance facilities such as a dealer, or an independent provider of maintenance without anyone being in the vehicle to and from the maintenance facility.

When all vehicles on public roads are fully autonomous and able to be fully autonomous regardless of all conditions that they may encounter, then traffic lights will be an antique thing of the past. Vehicles will negotiate intersections without stopping when there is no necessity to stop. In other words never waiting on a red light when there's nothing coming on the other roads that intersect the intersection. In fact, Vehicles will go through intersections timed so that they just miss other vehicles if that is what is required to get all the vehicles flowing through the intersection with minimum delay of each vehicle. Fully autonomous, means fully autonomous. And when Vehicles reach that level they will be able to do things that cannot be done today. But the biggest benefit, will be the drastic reduction in vehicle fatalities and injuries that we put up with nowadays.

Think about how often everyone who rides in a vehicle nowadays is endangered by other people who are out there driving under the influence, or distracted, or driving a vehicle that is mechanically unsafe, or basically just a bad driver. Every time you get in a vehicle nowadays and you go out on public roads you are subjected to the safety hazards that these individuals exposure you and yours to. That will be a thing of the past.

BTW, the reduction of insurance premiums from the extremely drastic reduction of fatalities and injuries and damage to the vehicles, will go a long way to supplement the cost of keeping vehicles on the road (or possibly in the air) in full autonomous usage.

Fully autonomous will be as big of a game changer as the difference between horses and Automobiles.

But we are only at level 2 now, and we have a long way to go before we get to level five.

People who do not understand that this is possible in the future, and may think that it is some kind of a pipe dream that is totally impossible, probably also do not have any understanding of how fast computers can execute commands nowadays. And because computers can execute so many commands in such a short amount of time it is just a matter of getting the software written to do this job and then inputting the proper sensing of what's going on to this software. What's really nice about all of this is that once the software is developed it can easily be distributed in extremely large distribution worldwide. Yes, it's millions of man hours of software writing, maybe even billions of man hours of software writing. But, work is being done to get all this accomplished. Eventually it will happen.
‐------------------

By the way, we were only at level two now. So don't think that anything some salesperson says about their vehicle be it Musk or someone else of any car manufacturer tells you about their vehicles ability to be self-driving is really a full autonomous self-driving vehicle. It is not. We are at level two not level five. And people who try to use vehicles that are at level two for full autonomous driving are the ones who end up getting killed.

You'll know it's a full level 5 capable vehicle when it comes with no steering wheel no brake pedal no gas pedal and just a microphone to tell it where to go at the beginning of the trip before it ever starts moving, or to make a change in destination sometime during the trip, and a means of verifying that you have the authority to be requesting the ride.

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Full autonomous level 5 will be great when it is finally developed but we're not there yet.

There will always be a manual override.
 
There will always be a manual override.

Tesla-self-driving-without-a-steering-wheel-1.jpg
 
There will always be a manual override.
In the beginning for sure. It may not let you get out of it right away if you are followed by another self driving car, or on a dedicated self driving lane in the future. Also don't be surprised in the future you will have dedicated traffic zone for self driving car to reduce accident or to improve traffic flow.

Shockwave traffic jam is a real thing and if all car on one particular road are self driving, they will be faster overall:

1692639634843.png


Come to think of it, a lot of Asian cities have mandatory days for cars of odd / even plate numbers to be allowed into downtown to reduce traffic jam. Don't be surprised they will mandate that in the future and if you want to ride into town you have to self drive into it, like today you can't ride horses into downtown without causing a lot of traffic and get escorted out by police.
 
In the beginning for sure. It may not let you get out of it right away if you are followed by another self driving car, or on a dedicated self driving lane in the future. Also don't be surprised in the future you will have dedicated traffic zone for self driving car to reduce accident or to improve traffic flow.

Shockwave traffic jam is a real thing and if all car on one particular road are self driving, they will be faster overall:

View attachment 174172

Come to think of it, a lot of Asian cities have mandatory days for cars of odd / even plate numbers to be allowed into downtown to reduce traffic jam. Don't be surprised they will mandate that in the future and if you want to ride into town you have to self drive into it, like today you can't ride horses into downtown without causing a lot of traffic and get escorted out by police.
Ya I used to make it a habit of breaking those jams when I had a long commute back in 2004-2008. The problem is that drivers enter the jam at faster rate than they can exit it (braking 60-0 vs acceleration 0-60). This is why the jam moves backwards. If drivers drove at say 40 mph instead of 65 mph then the jam would likely dissipate. I was the guy driving at 40 mph and I would break 1 or 2 on my way to/from work.

I'm sure autonomous driving will get better but liability isn't going to magically disappear.
 
Ya I used to make it a habit of breaking those jams when I had a long commute back in 2004-2008. The problem is that drivers enter the jam at faster rate than they can exit it (braking 60-0 vs acceleration 0-60). This is why the jam moves backwards. If drivers drove at say 40 mph instead of 65 mph then the jam would likely dissipate. I was the guy driving at 40 mph and I would break 1 or 2 on my way to/from work.

I'm sure autonomous driving will get better but liability isn't going to magically disappear.
Congress will need to pass legislation limiting liability for automakers before widespread adoption, but it will happen eventually.
It will take time, and eventually we will get there after some road design changes and gradual roll out after they are certified. I don't like that they want to jump to the moon and falls short, calling it beta, "capable", experimental, etc yet sell it as if it is complete. To me this give people false sense of safety.
 
Why the push for autonomous driving?

- The natural progression of technology and consumer demand. People are buying the products, i.e. Tesla.

- (Tin foil hat time) Autonomous driving and electric / connected cars can be turned off by someone who wants to control you.
 
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