Why the need for oversized Filters?

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Originally Posted By: oneraggedhole
I'm not sure why you'd care about the reasons behind why someone wants to use a bigger filter, unless you were thinking of doing it yourself.

In my book the bigger the better when it comes to flow and filtration. You can't get around the physics of how some things work.

I don't think it's the quintessential American "bigger is better" attitude coming into play, at least not without some reasoning behind it.


Please scroll up to my 1st reply and study it.
laugh.gif
 
if your ADBV is not perfect (most mine aren't) and leaks over night you may notice a longer dry start with oversized filter vs a shorter filter being easier to fill.
 
Originally Posted By: DirtRacer53
This has been something I've been curious about. Why do some people get oversized filters for their cars/trucks? I thought filters were spec'd to hold the same amount of contaminates (example: P1's hold 13g).


Dunning-Kruger Effect

Explains about 80% of the posts here.
 
Originally Posted By: mrplavick
Originally Posted By: DirtRacer53
This has been something I've been curious about. Why do some people get oversized filters for their cars/trucks? I thought filters were spec'd to hold the same amount of contaminates (example: P1's hold 13g).


Dunning-Kruger Effect

Explains about 80% of the posts here.

It's quite possible your post is an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: DirtRacer53
This has been something I've been curious about. Why do some people get oversized filters for their cars/trucks? I thought filters were spec'd to hold the same amount of contaminates (example: P1's hold 13g).
Look no further than your post to figure it out. Why do you know the contaminate capacity of any filter? If you're filling up a filter you're probably due a new engine any day. Cause you looked and more sounded better. So if a certain brand sounds good because of it's capability, why not another size with increased capability.
 
Originally Posted By: DirtRacer53
This has been something I've been curious about. Why do some people get oversized filters for their cars/trucks?


Because they want to, often not because they need to. Any benefits are probably negligible in most cases...

I just use the sizes spec'd for my vehicles. There may be some models where a different filter offers a tangible benefit, but they're likely few and far between.

Originally Posted By: mrplavick

Dunning-Kruger Effect

Explains about 80% of the posts here.


Ha! Check out the name of paper written by the authors:
"Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments"

The only way it could be more perfect is if you added "..and Internet Echo Chambers" on the end.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: mrplavick
Originally Posted By: DirtRacer53
This has been something I've been curious about. Why do some people get oversized filters for their cars/trucks? I thought filters were spec'd to hold the same amount of contaminates (example: P1's hold 13g).


Dunning-Kruger Effect

Explains about 80% of the posts here.

It's quite possible your post is an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
wink.gif



No, I am quite aware that I'm not in any position to question the filter specced for a car by automotive engineers.
 
Originally Posted By: mrplavick
Originally Posted By: DirtRacer53
This has been something I've been curious about. Why do some people get oversized filters for their cars/trucks? I thought filters were spec'd to hold the same amount of contaminates (example: P1's hold 13g).


Dunning-Kruger Effect

Explains about 80% of the posts here.


Never thought I'd get educated in psychology on BITOG! Does seem to hold true because sometimes ignorance becomes almost a religion clung to on faith alone. The "don't bother me with details or facts" syndrome. But let's not get too smug about it because we've probably all be there (well, not ME, of course but everyone else ( : < ).

A larger filter offers some benefits but only if you utilize them. A longer FCI would be one. Possibly a small drop in DP which could result in fewer bypass events. People who feel compelled to run thicker-than-spec'ed oil (for the climate) could probably benefit because the extra media area will tend to decrease their bypass events a little.
 
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Originally Posted By: mrplavick

No, I am quite aware that I'm not in any position to question the filter specced for a car by automotive engineers.


Good point, however flawed in some cases as some filter choices can be ultimately determined by the bean counters, not the engineers.

My Jeep is a good example, that same engine took a filter nearly double in size for decades but it was downsized along the way to save a buck. No doubt the smaller filter is entirely sufficient, but it was downsized due to a clearance issue on a completely different vehicle, and Chrysler found it cheaper to simply use the new smaller filter for all of them.

With todays cleaner running oils and engines, we see filters getting smaller all the time though.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep


Good point, however flawed in some cases as some filter choices can be ultimately determined by the bean counters, not the engineers.

No doubt. Vehicles are designed to make the manufacturer money. Not to be the best possible piece of equipment. Sure Ford could release the F-150 Engineer and Craftsman Edition but the six/seven figure pickup market is very small. Most people go for the give me the best truck you can for $30K.
 
The solution to pollution is dilution. Now I installed a dual remote bypass filter on my cute little GMC Duramax diesel engine. Oil capacity of the sump is 10 quarts, but the two filters take another 2 quarts, so I have a total fill of 12 quarts (see mom I can add), which is exactly the number of quarts in a case! Which also means I have diluted any contaminates by another .2 of a fill, and more, because the remote bypass filters sit under the cab inboard of the frame rail, right in the air stream, they dissipate additional heat. Now that also means that the bypass filter, which is filtering down to 2 microns, is cleaning a diluted stream of oil. What does that mean? Nothing but it sounds scientific as heck.

So there you have it, if the engine was equipped with a 50 gallon sump of oil, the oil would last nearly the life of the engine, but mileage would resemble that of an Abrams tank. What do the Amish talk about at the buggy show?
 
Originally Posted By: axlenut
The solution to pollution is dilution. Now I installed a dual remote bypass filter on my cute little GMC Duramax diesel engine. Oil capacity of the sump is 10 quarts, but the two filters take another 2 quarts, so I have a total fill of 12 quarts (see mom I can add), which is exactly the number of quarts in a case! Which also means I have diluted any contaminates by another .2 of a fill, and more, because the remote bypass filters sit under the cab inboard of the frame rail, right in the air stream, they dissipate additional heat. Now that also means that the bypass filter, which is filtering down to 2 microns, is cleaning a diluted stream of oil. What does that mean? Nothing but it sounds scientific as heck.

So there you have it, if the engine was equipped with a 50 gallon sump of oil, the oil would last nearly the life of the engine, but mileage would resemble that of an Abrams tank. What do the Amish talk about at the buggy show?

I like this members approach to input on this forum. I am looking forward to reading more of your replies.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Allow me to add this, and slip some reality into the topic ...

Expensive RL syn 15w-40 oil with bypass filtration:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2379331&page=1

Normal dino 10w-30 HDEO with normal filter:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323660&page=1

Two very similar trucks, both pulling travel trailers through the mountains and heat, for the same OCI distance.

UOA results show that there was no statistical difference in wear protection. None. Zip. Nada.

So you tell me how much "better" that expensive fluid and premium filtration really is? Show me tangible evidence that the extra money spent on uber-expensive lube/filter made his rig so much "better" protected than mine. He stacked the deck with every trick in the book, and got nothing exceptional in return. Why? Because the OCI was not long enough to make any difference. Syns and extra filtration are great tools to extend OCIs. But most folks never run their fluids and filters out far enough to make any difference whatsoever.

And so, over-sized filters (the poor man's bypass) are just a panacea that never manifests into real world results.

In theory, bigger filters filter better. But in reality they don't get used long enough to make any difference over the normal alternative.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Syns and extra filtration are great tools to extend OCIs. But most folks never run their fluids and filters out far enough to make any difference whatsoever.

DN3, you need to stop using me as an example in your analogies.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
... And so, over-sized filters (the poor man's bypass) are just a panacea that never manifests into real world results.

In theory, bigger filters filter better. But in reality they don't get used long enough to make any difference over the normal alternative.

I use larger filter in my LS400 for 1 year FCI, the yearly mileage can be north of 15k miles, up to about 16-18k miles. The most expensive filter in that car is Purolator Pure1, other brands were Bosch Premium, Motorcraft, some house brands and even OCOD.

Not only larger filters filter better it also have larger contaminant holding capacity. The bonus is the larger filters don't cost more than smaller OE size filter.

PS I never think about paying for high end oil filters such as M1 or K&N or "synthetic media" for my cars.

PS2 I do have some fleece filters for my E430, mainly because it was on sale for about the same price with regular paper filter at the time I need some fillers for free shipping.
 
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