Why so many automatics in the US?
- Thread starter Olas
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Because shifting gears is a pain in the butt...especially in bumper to bumper traffic.
I prefer a stick, but they're becoming very hard to find in mainstream US cars.
Most drivers here have voted with their wallets and so automatics are the default choice here.
A majority of Americans under the age of sixty don't even know how to drive a stick and aren't about to confess their ignornace and learn how to.
My commute does not involve heavy traffic so a stick is no harship.
A stick becomes much like an automatic to those used to driving them, since the minor extra effort becomes second nature.
Most drivers here have voted with their wallets and so automatics are the default choice here.
A majority of Americans under the age of sixty don't even know how to drive a stick and aren't about to confess their ignornace and learn how to.
My commute does not involve heavy traffic so a stick is no harship.
A stick becomes much like an automatic to those used to driving them, since the minor extra effort becomes second nature.
Originally Posted By: DoiInthanon
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: strat81
Texting and driving a manual trans while eating a Big Mac is, like, totally hard.
Then you are doing it wrong. When I had my 86 Mustang with a 4 speed stick and no cupholders I could eat breakfast and drive. You put the coffee between your legs, eat with 1 hand, steer with your knee and shift with the other hand. Probably not safe at all but it got the job done.
Dude! Coffee between your legs? Makes hitting second at four grand a real painful experience.
88hp and a little over 120 lb-ft doesn't push you back in any seat or create any drama!
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: strat81
Texting and driving a manual trans while eating a Big Mac is, like, totally hard.
Then you are doing it wrong. When I had my 86 Mustang with a 4 speed stick and no cupholders I could eat breakfast and drive. You put the coffee between your legs, eat with 1 hand, steer with your knee and shift with the other hand. Probably not safe at all but it got the job done.
Dude! Coffee between your legs? Makes hitting second at four grand a real painful experience.
88hp and a little over 120 lb-ft doesn't push you back in any seat or create any drama!
Originally Posted By: bepperb
First off, "the majority of cars in America auto" is the understatement of the year. I'd guess 95%, and I'd take the over if that was the number to bet on.
Gas here is cheap. Cars here are big. Big stick shift cars aren't very "fun" to drive. Highest selling car in the US is the Ford F150... not available in stick. Most importantly, people who shouldn't even be riding a bike drive cars here, while talking on the phone no less.
There is little benefit to longevity, and even if there was to a person buying a new (who will likely not keep it until it's scrapped) why would they care? It will be more difficult to sell and be worth considerably less.
I recently saw an article that said 95%.
I think in a world of GPS telling me where to go, back up cameras and talking screens, the idea of shifting seems primitive to most folks. Plus most people I know don't even know how to drive a manual, and really don't want to know.
John
First off, "the majority of cars in America auto" is the understatement of the year. I'd guess 95%, and I'd take the over if that was the number to bet on.
Gas here is cheap. Cars here are big. Big stick shift cars aren't very "fun" to drive. Highest selling car in the US is the Ford F150... not available in stick. Most importantly, people who shouldn't even be riding a bike drive cars here, while talking on the phone no less.
There is little benefit to longevity, and even if there was to a person buying a new (who will likely not keep it until it's scrapped) why would they care? It will be more difficult to sell and be worth considerably less.
I recently saw an article that said 95%.
I think in a world of GPS telling me where to go, back up cameras and talking screens, the idea of shifting seems primitive to most folks. Plus most people I know don't even know how to drive a manual, and really don't want to know.
John
Different world views.
I've often said I was born in the wrong country with respect to driving. I prefer small displacement, manual transmission cars.
(Politically is another story!)
One of the other reasons I've not read up to the point of the quoted post is emissions controls.
Vehicles must be certified, and it's easier to control emissions if you control more aspects of the power train. They typical automatic, the only driver input to consider is the throttle. With a manual transmission car, you also have to respond to the driver selecting a gear.
Finally, mass production. Before the financial crisis in 2008, 17 MILLION new vehicles were sold in the US each year. The costs to have one program for an automatic car and one for a manual probably add up. It's likely less costly to make just one variety.
Just like Henry Ford said when he was making the Model T. You can have any transmission you want, as long as it's an automatic
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Olas
IMO, automatic is easy to drive but boring, and being less involved gives more opportunity for being distracted whereas a manual is more involved, more precise and lets you control the car better.
That's exactly why most Americans want an automatic. They want cars that allow them to be distracted, and not worry about the inconvenience of driving.
Is that a commonly held sentiment among US motorists that driving is an inconvenience? I'm not representative but I see it as an indulgence, a luxury and a hobby.
I've often said I was born in the wrong country with respect to driving. I prefer small displacement, manual transmission cars.
(Politically is another story!)
One of the other reasons I've not read up to the point of the quoted post is emissions controls.
Vehicles must be certified, and it's easier to control emissions if you control more aspects of the power train. They typical automatic, the only driver input to consider is the throttle. With a manual transmission car, you also have to respond to the driver selecting a gear.
Finally, mass production. Before the financial crisis in 2008, 17 MILLION new vehicles were sold in the US each year. The costs to have one program for an automatic car and one for a manual probably add up. It's likely less costly to make just one variety.
Just like Henry Ford said when he was making the Model T. You can have any transmission you want, as long as it's an automatic
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Olas
IMO, automatic is easy to drive but boring, and being less involved gives more opportunity for being distracted whereas a manual is more involved, more precise and lets you control the car better.
That's exactly why most Americans want an automatic. They want cars that allow them to be distracted, and not worry about the inconvenience of driving.
Is that a commonly held sentiment among US motorists that driving is an inconvenience? I'm not representative but I see it as an indulgence, a luxury and a hobby.
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Olas
IMO, automatic is easy to drive but boring, and being less involved gives more opportunity for being distracted whereas a manual is more involved, more precise and lets you control the car better.
That's exactly why most Americans want an automatic. They want cars that allow them to be distracted, and not worry about the inconvenience of driving.
+1000
Originally Posted By: Olas
IMO, automatic is easy to drive but boring, and being less involved gives more opportunity for being distracted whereas a manual is more involved, more precise and lets you control the car better.
That's exactly why most Americans want an automatic. They want cars that allow them to be distracted, and not worry about the inconvenience of driving.
+1000
American MTs are for people who think they are Paul Walker (or Frank Bullitt for the oldsters). Apologies to anyone who grew up on a farm.
I can't think of one good reason to not have an AT in a modern car. An MT does not prevent distracted or just plain bad driving.
Most cars are appliances. Some of them are toys. End.
I can't think of one good reason to not have an AT in a modern car. An MT does not prevent distracted or just plain bad driving.
Most cars are appliances. Some of them are toys. End.
I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I can see why a person might want to choose their gears, but I don't see why they want to shift them. Ideally I would take an automatic with the ability to manually select each gear or put it in auto. Why do we need a clutch? I can't operate a clutch anyway because I have a bad knee, but I have no desire.
The only issue I have with the shifting of the automatic in my truck is it lugs a little under some circumstances in OD. Just stomp on the throttle and it shifts, easier than shifting a manual. The "tow/haul" mode eliminates this problem and revs the engine higher like you might with a manual.
And resale value is not good. When I was looking for a truck, the second I saw the stick shift, I wasn't interested.
The only issue I have with the shifting of the automatic in my truck is it lugs a little under some circumstances in OD. Just stomp on the throttle and it shifts, easier than shifting a manual. The "tow/haul" mode eliminates this problem and revs the engine higher like you might with a manual.
And resale value is not good. When I was looking for a truck, the second I saw the stick shift, I wasn't interested.
I've never understood the whole chest thumping thing that goes hand in hand in hand with driving modern manual transmissions. Modern manuals are so dumbed down that anyone can do it. Even my 60-something wife drives a 5 speed transmission-the difference is that she doesn't think driving one is anything special or out of the ordinary. She'd be just as happy in an automatic.
It's not as though you actually have to learn to double clutch or match engine and transmission speed before shifting. With modern manuals it's simply shift and go-it's something to keep your right hand and left foot busy-nothing more.
And those silly paddle shifters next to the steering wheel that folks think are akin to driving a manual transmission? It's like watching a preschooler play with a plastic Fisher Price driving set. I rode with a salesman about 2 months ago that had those things-I kept expecting to see him start making car noises and yelling "beep beep" to go along with his pretend shifting. It took all my self control not to burst out laughing at his attempt to be "cool".
Now that I think about it, I think I did start laughing at him.
It's not as though you actually have to learn to double clutch or match engine and transmission speed before shifting. With modern manuals it's simply shift and go-it's something to keep your right hand and left foot busy-nothing more.
And those silly paddle shifters next to the steering wheel that folks think are akin to driving a manual transmission? It's like watching a preschooler play with a plastic Fisher Price driving set. I rode with a salesman about 2 months ago that had those things-I kept expecting to see him start making car noises and yelling "beep beep" to go along with his pretend shifting. It took all my self control not to burst out laughing at his attempt to be "cool".
Now that I think about it, I think I did start laughing at him.
Originally Posted By: MichiganMadMan
My take on this:
Arrow straight roads (at least away from the mountains, which covers millions of acres here).
The DOT fell in love with stop lights, this results in traffic being a "batch flow" rather than a "continuous flow". People also accelerate at no more than 15% throttle up to speed, meaning you can't exploit any "fun" factor a manual trans might have.
90 degree intersections and the "tree of death" mentioned above being erected to prevent forward progress of traffic. Traffic circles and roundabouts used in Europe allow more potential for continuous flow. To say Americans are confused by these is an understatement. They put in a new one a year or two ago, I could hear the horns honking. Once people get used to them though, the improvement in traffic flow is dramatic.
Traffic on expressways and "freeways" often crawls at a pace where you have to slip the clutch, or leave a gap between you and the person in front. In this part of Michigan, if you leave a spot large enough for a whole car in front of you, a jerk (or several) will take it.
The "old fossil stoplight creep", where someone comes up to a regulated intersection and slows without stopping. This results in multiple clutch engagements for a single regulated intersection, in order not to leave a gaping chasm in front of you (that elicits horn honks here). Go to Phoenix this time of year for continuous demonstrations.
But the WORST BY FAR:
General lack of interest in the driving process. Given the above facts, most people have NO IDEA the performance abilities of their car. The "driving" instruction here should also be called "How to Obey the Traffic Laws" because that is what is taught. I fault many of my fellow Americans for their general lack of skill, but it's probably a combination of an absence of need and lack of education. Driving here is something you "have to do" in order to do the things you want to do when you get there.
Cars are an appliance. The most popular colors for cars here are white, black and silver. JUST LIKE YOUR FRIDGE.
Everyone has Facebook updates to get in, tweets to send, lunch to eat, baskets to weave rather than driving their car. This was enabled by many of the above factors, and seems to get worse with every generation.
Some more ranting:
The first mass production motorcycle (not a scooter or a super-scooter) I saw with an automatic transmission (the Honda VFR 1200) really made me sad. Until now, someone who rode a motorcycle had to learn how to run a clutch and change gears. Now that you can skip that, any brain donor can buy and run a bike.
I drove my Subaru STI to a party at my sisters house, and went to the store to get a replacement for a dish that went wrong with my dad, and left my keys because I was last in line in the driveway. It took us longer to do the errand than expected, and I got frantic phone calls from my sister. Of the 11 people there, NO ONE could drive a manual. Disappointed!
Carrier Circle has been in Syracuse for 35 years now. It's a roundabout on a somewhat major road.
There are constant accidents on it from people that can not navigate a traffic circle.
My take on this:
Arrow straight roads (at least away from the mountains, which covers millions of acres here).
The DOT fell in love with stop lights, this results in traffic being a "batch flow" rather than a "continuous flow". People also accelerate at no more than 15% throttle up to speed, meaning you can't exploit any "fun" factor a manual trans might have.
90 degree intersections and the "tree of death" mentioned above being erected to prevent forward progress of traffic. Traffic circles and roundabouts used in Europe allow more potential for continuous flow. To say Americans are confused by these is an understatement. They put in a new one a year or two ago, I could hear the horns honking. Once people get used to them though, the improvement in traffic flow is dramatic.
Traffic on expressways and "freeways" often crawls at a pace where you have to slip the clutch, or leave a gap between you and the person in front. In this part of Michigan, if you leave a spot large enough for a whole car in front of you, a jerk (or several) will take it.
The "old fossil stoplight creep", where someone comes up to a regulated intersection and slows without stopping. This results in multiple clutch engagements for a single regulated intersection, in order not to leave a gaping chasm in front of you (that elicits horn honks here). Go to Phoenix this time of year for continuous demonstrations.
But the WORST BY FAR:
General lack of interest in the driving process. Given the above facts, most people have NO IDEA the performance abilities of their car. The "driving" instruction here should also be called "How to Obey the Traffic Laws" because that is what is taught. I fault many of my fellow Americans for their general lack of skill, but it's probably a combination of an absence of need and lack of education. Driving here is something you "have to do" in order to do the things you want to do when you get there.
Cars are an appliance. The most popular colors for cars here are white, black and silver. JUST LIKE YOUR FRIDGE.
Everyone has Facebook updates to get in, tweets to send, lunch to eat, baskets to weave rather than driving their car. This was enabled by many of the above factors, and seems to get worse with every generation.
Some more ranting:
The first mass production motorcycle (not a scooter or a super-scooter) I saw with an automatic transmission (the Honda VFR 1200) really made me sad. Until now, someone who rode a motorcycle had to learn how to run a clutch and change gears. Now that you can skip that, any brain donor can buy and run a bike.
I drove my Subaru STI to a party at my sisters house, and went to the store to get a replacement for a dish that went wrong with my dad, and left my keys because I was last in line in the driveway. It took us longer to do the errand than expected, and I got frantic phone calls from my sister. Of the 11 people there, NO ONE could drive a manual. Disappointed!
Carrier Circle has been in Syracuse for 35 years now. It's a roundabout on a somewhat major road.
There are constant accidents on it from people that can not navigate a traffic circle.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: kam327
Perhaps I represent a typical American - I love to drive but don't fancy moving a shift lever and left foot hundreds of times on each way of my commute. Sure, it's fun for a while but it would get real old real fast with a couple of dozen stops to make each way.
And I would turn the tables on your concentration argument. Seems to me constantly shifting gears correctly takes its own concentration, which distracts from driving. If all the shifting is automatic, your full concentration can be directed to potential obstacles.
I like to manually shift my automatic on occaision for fun, but I sure am glad it'll do the work for me 90% of the time.
Changing gear isn't any more effort than moving the steering wheel hundreds of times on each journey, and using the clutch is only as much of an inconvenience as either of the other pedals. On the concentration point, we're talking from our own relative experience where I feel bored if you take one of my pedals away but you feel hard done by if you have an extra pedal and an extra lever to operate because it's different to what we're accustomed to.
Do you ever feel impatient or frustrated when your auto either takes too long to shift up, shifts at the wrong engine speed or doesn't know to shift down as you approach a corner? Apart from the boredom, those were the only things that stood out in my mind from the few times I've driven automatics.
The US and the UK, or Europe for that matter are two very different driving cultures.
We have big vast open spaces. Our roads are generally very wide, very straight, and very long.
So we like big comfortable, and powerful cars. Also fuel is not nearly as expensive.
As a result cars like the Chrysler 300 work wonderfully, and something like an XJ with a big V8 is just perfect for our roads. The smaller motors not so much.
As for the divide between manuals and auto's it started after WW2.
Auto's were a luxury because they were expensive to build, burned a bit of fuel, and you needed large motors to turn them. Europe was broke, and well in ruins. So any car was a luxury, something like a 55 Chevy was out of reach.
This is why cars like the original Mini and Fiat's became popular. They were small, cheap cars that the average European family could afford.
At the same time in the US you had Cadillac's with tail fins that pointed to the sky massive V8's, and a bit later on the muscle cars!
Those trends just kind of continued to today. Just recently modern automatics have gotten better than manuals in every possible way really, except for cost. This is why Ferrari has dumped the stick shift and Porsche is following...to slow.
Originally Posted By: kam327
Perhaps I represent a typical American - I love to drive but don't fancy moving a shift lever and left foot hundreds of times on each way of my commute. Sure, it's fun for a while but it would get real old real fast with a couple of dozen stops to make each way.
And I would turn the tables on your concentration argument. Seems to me constantly shifting gears correctly takes its own concentration, which distracts from driving. If all the shifting is automatic, your full concentration can be directed to potential obstacles.
I like to manually shift my automatic on occaision for fun, but I sure am glad it'll do the work for me 90% of the time.
Changing gear isn't any more effort than moving the steering wheel hundreds of times on each journey, and using the clutch is only as much of an inconvenience as either of the other pedals. On the concentration point, we're talking from our own relative experience where I feel bored if you take one of my pedals away but you feel hard done by if you have an extra pedal and an extra lever to operate because it's different to what we're accustomed to.
Do you ever feel impatient or frustrated when your auto either takes too long to shift up, shifts at the wrong engine speed or doesn't know to shift down as you approach a corner? Apart from the boredom, those were the only things that stood out in my mind from the few times I've driven automatics.
The US and the UK, or Europe for that matter are two very different driving cultures.
We have big vast open spaces. Our roads are generally very wide, very straight, and very long.
So we like big comfortable, and powerful cars. Also fuel is not nearly as expensive.
As a result cars like the Chrysler 300 work wonderfully, and something like an XJ with a big V8 is just perfect for our roads. The smaller motors not so much.
As for the divide between manuals and auto's it started after WW2.
Auto's were a luxury because they were expensive to build, burned a bit of fuel, and you needed large motors to turn them. Europe was broke, and well in ruins. So any car was a luxury, something like a 55 Chevy was out of reach.
This is why cars like the original Mini and Fiat's became popular. They were small, cheap cars that the average European family could afford.
At the same time in the US you had Cadillac's with tail fins that pointed to the sky massive V8's, and a bit later on the muscle cars!
Those trends just kind of continued to today. Just recently modern automatics have gotten better than manuals in every possible way really, except for cost. This is why Ferrari has dumped the stick shift and Porsche is following...to slow.
Manual shift mode is kinda nice. I use mine constantly: I know I'm giving up a bit of mpg, but I hate running with the torque convertor unlocked, or worse, "flex-lock". I fail to see how intentionally generating heat is a good thing. I also kinda dislike the rubber-band feel that one gets with it unlocked.
***
Roundabouts can be good, but the one in Brattleboro has to be taken with care. It's two lanes going in, but only one lane goes around. The outermost lane is supposed to be for taking the next right. Yet: the exits are two lanes wide.
I almost think you need the roundabout to be more than 25' across. I've noticed that, at the one in New London, and the one in Goffstown, that you wind up stopping anyhow if someone is in the circle. It's not as if anyone uses directionals to let you know if they are exiting or not.
***
Roundabouts can be good, but the one in Brattleboro has to be taken with care. It's two lanes going in, but only one lane goes around. The outermost lane is supposed to be for taking the next right. Yet: the exits are two lanes wide.
I almost think you need the roundabout to be more than 25' across. I've noticed that, at the one in New London, and the one in Goffstown, that you wind up stopping anyhow if someone is in the circle. It's not as if anyone uses directionals to let you know if they are exiting or not.
Originally Posted By: Silk
I ride a motorcycle - changing gear adds to the concentration...being in the right place at the right time, the correct gear, the correct speed for the corner etc. I guess that's another reason for so many autos in the US, a lack of corners.
We have some great roads and corners in the US, just depends where you are.
I ride a motorcycle - changing gear adds to the concentration...being in the right place at the right time, the correct gear, the correct speed for the corner etc. I guess that's another reason for so many autos in the US, a lack of corners.
We have some great roads and corners in the US, just depends where you are.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Auto's were a luxury because they were expensive to build, burned a bit of fuel, and you needed large motors to turn them. Europe was broke, and well in ruins. So any car was a luxury, something like a 55 Chevy was out of reach.
Also the Brits had their taxable horsepower taxes, that were related to the total square inches of piston area (*), making large engines very very unpopular to the masses.
(*) It was supposed to be Area x Brake Mean Effective Pressure x Stroke x RPM, but as they "knew" how high BMEP, and piston speed could be, and combined all of the latter into a constant. As design and metallurgy improved, these long stroke engines ran faster, and breathed freer, and made often multiple times their "rated" HP.
Auto's were a luxury because they were expensive to build, burned a bit of fuel, and you needed large motors to turn them. Europe was broke, and well in ruins. So any car was a luxury, something like a 55 Chevy was out of reach.
Also the Brits had their taxable horsepower taxes, that were related to the total square inches of piston area (*), making large engines very very unpopular to the masses.
(*) It was supposed to be Area x Brake Mean Effective Pressure x Stroke x RPM, but as they "knew" how high BMEP, and piston speed could be, and combined all of the latter into a constant. As design and metallurgy improved, these long stroke engines ran faster, and breathed freer, and made often multiple times their "rated" HP.
In North America if you know how to use the STOP pedal, the GO pedal, and can steer a bit, you are 95% through your drivers test.
Which is what most Kids and Parents want ASAP
Once a kid learns to drive an Auto, many (most) have no inclination to want to learn Stick.
What they don't know, they don't miss.
Which is what most Kids and Parents want ASAP
Once a kid learns to drive an Auto, many (most) have no inclination to want to learn Stick.
What they don't know, they don't miss.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I've never understood the whole chest thumping thing that goes hand in hand in hand with driving modern manual transmissions. Modern manuals are so dumbed down that anyone can do it. Even my 60-something wife drives a 5 speed transmission-the difference is that she doesn't think driving one is anything special or out of the ordinary. She'd be just as happy in an automatic.
It's not as though you actually have to learn to double clutch or match engine and transmission speed before shifting. With modern manuals it's simply shift and go-it's something to keep your right hand and left foot busy-nothing more.
And those silly paddle shifters next to the steering wheel that folks think are akin to driving a manual transmission? It's like watching a preschooler play with a plastic Fisher Price driving set. I rode with a salesman about 2 months ago that had those things-I kept expecting to see him start making car noises and yelling "beep beep" to go along with his pretend shifting. It took all my self control not to burst out laughing at his attempt to be "cool".
Now that I think about it, I think I did start laughing at him.
Yep modern manuals are very easy to drive. My uncle has an old dump truck with a double sided clutch so you can't hold the clutch down at stop lights, also its non synchro. But matching the rpm's to get a shift is fun.
As for the paddle gear boxes it depends. On something like an Accord they are pointless, on a Ferrari 458 OMFG they work well, and in full race you get slammed with shifts. Same with the Porsche PDK. A human cannot shift faster than those transmissions do. THe PDK is a very interesting piece of engineering and is actually a manual transmission.
They make cars faster which is why a 458 if I remember correctly holds the track record at Lime Rock right now.
I've never understood the whole chest thumping thing that goes hand in hand in hand with driving modern manual transmissions. Modern manuals are so dumbed down that anyone can do it. Even my 60-something wife drives a 5 speed transmission-the difference is that she doesn't think driving one is anything special or out of the ordinary. She'd be just as happy in an automatic.
It's not as though you actually have to learn to double clutch or match engine and transmission speed before shifting. With modern manuals it's simply shift and go-it's something to keep your right hand and left foot busy-nothing more.
And those silly paddle shifters next to the steering wheel that folks think are akin to driving a manual transmission? It's like watching a preschooler play with a plastic Fisher Price driving set. I rode with a salesman about 2 months ago that had those things-I kept expecting to see him start making car noises and yelling "beep beep" to go along with his pretend shifting. It took all my self control not to burst out laughing at his attempt to be "cool".
Now that I think about it, I think I did start laughing at him.
Yep modern manuals are very easy to drive. My uncle has an old dump truck with a double sided clutch so you can't hold the clutch down at stop lights, also its non synchro. But matching the rpm's to get a shift is fun.
As for the paddle gear boxes it depends. On something like an Accord they are pointless, on a Ferrari 458 OMFG they work well, and in full race you get slammed with shifts. Same with the Porsche PDK. A human cannot shift faster than those transmissions do. THe PDK is a very interesting piece of engineering and is actually a manual transmission.
They make cars faster which is why a 458 if I remember correctly holds the track record at Lime Rock right now.
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Auto's were a luxury because they were expensive to build, burned a bit of fuel, and you needed large motors to turn them. Europe was broke, and well in ruins. So any car was a luxury, something like a 55 Chevy was out of reach.
Also the Brits had their taxable horsepower taxes, that were related to the total square inches of piston area (*), making large engines very very unpopular to the masses.
(*) It was supposed to be Area x Brake Mean Effective Pressure x Stroke x RPM, but as they "knew" how high BMEP, and piston speed could be, and combined all of the latter into a constant. As design and metallurgy improved, these long stroke engines ran faster, and breathed freer, and made often multiple times their "rated" HP.
Yes, years back (Perhaps up until the mid 50's ??) cars were Taxed by engine BORE size (not stroke)
It lead to a whole lot of Long stroke engines.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Auto's were a luxury because they were expensive to build, burned a bit of fuel, and you needed large motors to turn them. Europe was broke, and well in ruins. So any car was a luxury, something like a 55 Chevy was out of reach.
Also the Brits had their taxable horsepower taxes, that were related to the total square inches of piston area (*), making large engines very very unpopular to the masses.
(*) It was supposed to be Area x Brake Mean Effective Pressure x Stroke x RPM, but as they "knew" how high BMEP, and piston speed could be, and combined all of the latter into a constant. As design and metallurgy improved, these long stroke engines ran faster, and breathed freer, and made often multiple times their "rated" HP.
Yes, years back (Perhaps up until the mid 50's ??) cars were Taxed by engine BORE size (not stroke)
It lead to a whole lot of Long stroke engines.
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