Why People Dislike a CVT

[emg]

Originally Posted By: Kira
I don't like CVTs because they were designed with teeny-weeny cars in mind.


Like thousand-horsepower Formula One race-cars? I guess they are pretty small by modern standards. And I remember Lotus pushing CVTs for their sports cars when I was a kid, though they never released them.

And, yes, when the choice is CVT or 8/10/12-gear automatics in order to hit insane mpg targets, the answer is obvious.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Trav
All this thread is going to generate is 3 types of poster.
The one who bought one, hates it, knows it sucks but wont ever post that, instead rave about how good it is.

The second are people who nothing about transmissions and really don't want to, they think its just another automatic, as long as it goes forward and reverse who cares.

The third, people who don't like them because they are difficult and expensive to repair, expensive as all get out to replace and have a sketchy reliability history.
Add to that most are dog slow, do not relay any feel back to the driver unless its programed to simulate shifting, finicky about maintenance and the type of fluid used, etc.

For me personally they suck big time. I would never own one or buy one. I was just offered a 2011 Dodge Caliber for $500 30 min ago that is going to cost too much (for them, not for me) to repair the electrical gremlins, it has 92K on it and in nice shape as far as it goes but its a CVT.
I am not even interested in flipping it even if it was free, the POS CVT will no doubt come back to bite me.


You missed two.
1. Those who have them and truly love them. (me)

2. Those who are opinionated; probably never had one and don't know what are talking about...that would be you.

You can go to any reliable source and discover that the CVT keeps the vehicle in its max torque range...continuously. And thus are proportionately.
When I put my foot into it my Forester XT does nothing but go.

Now if I only could figure out what a CTV is

 

[Andrew1972]

I could care less on transmission type and more go on powertrain. The Jeep Patriot using CVT with the motor was rolling garbage. The Forester XT was perfect. Potentially same CVT but the CrossTrek was just terrible.

 

[oil_film_movies]

All the criticisms of CVTs here don't apply to some brands & kinds of CVT. Of course, the planetary gearset CVTs in hybrids-only are in a class by themselves, and great usually. Then you have the chain/cone types which are slow to shift down usually.

The rest are chain/cone Jatco (Nissan, Chrysler, others), Subaru (their own), Honda (their own), Toyota, etc., and others like the GM units, & the older ZF units found in Minis and some Fords. We can't cast them into one group.

I did have a lot of trouble with a 2014 Altima rental car, and Nissan (Jatco) can't seem to get good reliability as far as percentage failed, which is the important number. Maybe I'll look at Consumer Reports surveys to find out.

Some "shifty" 9-speed automatics lately have had trouble, like Jeep Cherokee's & others, so don't look to the old-school automatics for anything reliable either.

One way to get rid of any transmission problems is to have a 1-speed automatic like one of my cars (Focus Electric). No shifting, smooth, no problems, ... no transmission actually....

 

[Cujet]

Thought:

People that don't like CVT's are likely driving underpowered vehicles where engine RPM is often high by necessity.

The Nissan Maxima has a wonderful feel to it. Plenty of low end grunt is available, so the engine never drones and the car never feels like it's straining. Light throttle results in more than adequate acceleration, even at low RPM. The 30MPG I got exactly matched the Subaru Legacy. But the Maxima is exactly twice as fast and a whole bunch more satisfying to drive.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Trav
All this thread is going to generate is 3 types of poster.
The one who bought one, hates it, knows it sucks but wont ever post that, instead rave about how good it is.

The second are people who nothing about transmissions and really don't want to, they think its just another automatic, as long as it goes forward and reverse who cares.

The third, people who don't like them because they are difficult and expensive to repair, expensive as all get out to replace and have a sketchy reliability history.
Add to that most are dog slow, do not relay any feel back to the driver unless its programed to simulate shifting, finicky about maintenance and the type of fluid used, etc.

For me personally they suck big time. I would never own one or buy one. I was just offered a 2011 Dodge Caliber for $500 30 min ago that is going to cost too much (for them, not for me) to repair the electrical gremlins, it has 92K on it and in nice shape as far as it goes but its a CVT.
I am not even interested in flipping it even if it was free, the POS CVT will no doubt come back to bite me.


You missed two.
1. Those who have them and truly love them. (me)

2. Those who are opinionated; probably never had one and don't know what are talking about...that would be you.

You can go to any reliable source and discover that the CVT keeps the vehicle in its max torque range...continuously. And thus are proportionately.
When I put my foot into it my Forester XT does nothing but go.

Now if I only could figure out what a CTV is

I didn't forget any. I think you fall into the know nothing about transmissions and couldn't care less as long as it goes. As far as not knowing what I am talking about, posters here know me and I think most don't share your opinion. Why do you want to make it personal?

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Thought:

People that don't like CVT's are likely driving underpowered vehicles where engine RPM is often high by necessity.

The Nissan Maxima has a wonderful feel to it. Plenty of low end grunt is available, so the engine never drones and the car never feels like it's straining. Light throttle results in more than adequate acceleration, even at low RPM. The 30MPG I got exactly matched the Subaru Legacy. But the Maxima is exactly twice as fast and a whole bunch more satisfying to drive.

And yet, I can't help but feel like the Maxima would be at least 99% better if it had a manual or DCT.

Bring back the "4 Door Sports Car!"

 

[Al]

Quote:
I didn't forget any. I think you fall into the know nothing about transmissions and couldn't care less as long as it goes. As far as not knowing what I am talking about, posters here know me and I think most don't share your opinion. Why do you want to make it personal?

OK..then I WILL say then that you know what you are talking about :cheers

But why are my 2 other classes of folks not valid? You did not include these two groups. And it is plain silly to say that there are NO people that love them and have zero problems with them. I personally know of an outback close to me that has a CVT and 140K miles. I know of a Maxima that has 110K with no problems. And guess what there might actually be a couple people there that (gulp) know as much as you.

And try to tell me there are not those who know little about them, have never owned one...and yet...Hate them?

 

[SnowDrifter]

I like CVTs in concept. They also don't bother me with the way the drive.

What kills me are 2 things:
1. Reliability. To my knowledge, the only good ones are in the toyota/lexus hybrids, but that's because they're not really a CVT. They operate like a differential and use the electric motor to provide the CVT function
2. CVTs with fake gears. Don't make one thing that tries to be something else. It's a CVT. Let it be its own entity

 

[wdn]

I have rented two cars with CVT both Nissans. The Sentra I rented for two weeks in Hawaii a few years ago. I could not wait to get rid of the thing. It felt like an automatic transmission that is slipping. The revs were way too high before it did anything. It drove like a clown car. It also gave you no clue as to how much power the engine had in reserve or did not have on tap in any situation.

The Maxima I rented for a week in California earlier a year and a half ago. It was a nice car. This was a business trip so I just used it to get from hotel to office etc. Maybe it had a CVT maybe not but I did not really notice the transmission. That is mostly because the car was well soundproofed.

 

[OVERKILL]

My quad has a CVT and in that application, it's quite good IMHO. I have driven them in cars and didn't like the feeling

A "traditional" transmission, even an automatic, feels more "connected" than a CVT. In an ATV, that's less of a concern because the driving style isn't at all similar and the experience itself is so fundamentally different that I think it is safe leverage that as a reason as to why one can like them in one application and not in another.

 

[JHZR2]

I prefer MT.

I recognize that I cannot get that in all vehicles.

Since CVTs are claimed to have power limitations, I look at it like this:

If I wanted a small, low power car that wasn’t a hybrid, I’d buy heavily based upon MT availability. Since aI tend to keep vehicles a long time, resale due to MT is not a concern to me.

For larger vehicles that only have automatic type transmissions, I’d generally prefer a more standard design since they are generally proven and capable of higher power levels.

If CVTs are proven over the lifetime of lots of vehicles, and suitable and the only option for the vehicle I want, I wouldn’t much care. I do like the concept.

That said:

MT >> DCT=AT>CVT

At this time.

 

[MCompact]

I think it's hard to improve on the ZF 8HP; I've always been a dyed-in-the-wool proponent of three pedals, but even on the track the 8HP almost always does the exact thing I would do.

 

[Number_35]

Originally Posted By: Al
No secret that many here dislike them. I am curious what the big complaints are.

Here is a starter. "I dislike them because:"

1. They are slow
2. I question reliability
3. I don't like the better gas mileage they deliver
4. I dislike the fact that I cannot hear them shift.
5. They are too "newfangled"

Disclaimer:I like them. Perhaps I or others will learn something here.

I've heard that the Nissan ones, particularly, tend to fail prematurely, and that the repair cost for both Nissan and Ford often exceeds the worth of the vehicle.

As well, some say that they can't be serviced by the backyard mechanic - that is, that they have to go to the dealer for an expensive fluid change.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Unfortunately, Nissan has remade the Oldsmobile 350 diesel with theirs. Effectively ruining it for many with CVTs that only go 50K miles before catastrophically failing.

I would be okay if my next ddaily driver car had a non-nissan CVT in it.

 

[Mr Nice]

Mazdas still have a traditional automatic transmission.

 

[Driz]

https://youtu.be/nqZseFMPooA





Scotty says they suck and have poor reliability. That and the fact they usually grenade and you need a whole new one for $5500 when one dies. That’s acceptable for the folks who buy new and trade every couple years but no way sensible for someone who buys used. See what you get for a trade in on a car with 75000 miles and dead tranny......
Perhaps eventually someone will perfect these things but not on my dime. That’s about what Scotty says about them. Well just sit back and let the rest of you be the guinea pigs while they figure these snowmobile trannies out.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Thought:

People that don't like CVT's are likely driving underpowered vehicles where engine RPM is often high by necessity.

The Nissan Maxima has a wonderful feel to it. Plenty of low end grunt is available, so the engine never drones and the car never feels like it's straining. Light throttle results in more than adequate acceleration, even at low RPM. The 30MPG I got exactly matched the Subaru Legacy. But the Maxima is exactly twice as fast and a whole bunch more satisfying to drive.

And yet, I can't help but feel like the Maxima would be at least 99% better if it had a manual or DCT.

Bring back the "4 Door Sports Car!"


The Maxima is among the most fun new cars. It's not likely to be any better with either of those choices. It shifts now, and you really can't tell it's a CVT.

From C+D magazine: "Goose the throttle to pull out into traffic, and the Maxima responds with gusto. It’s a fast car, even by Car and Driver standards. At our test track, it performed a 5.9-second zero-to-60-mph run and finished the quarter-mile in 14.4 seconds at 101 mph. Passing power is plentiful in the Maxima; in our 50-to-70-mph highway merging test, it managed a 3.8-second result, the best in the class."

EDIT: I have to say it again, 30mpg, same as the Subaru Legacy. Nearly twice as fast to 60. Same type of transmission, completely different results due to the engine involved.

 

[mazdamonky]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
Reliability: our 2014 Sentra has been in for CVT repairs 3X; and the 2015 Rogue is making noise and needs repair.
by now we would have bought 2 more new Nissans (we really like the cars, and two kids need cars); but nope. no dice.


I just steered my friends away from a Rogue and they ended up buying a CX-5 from Mazda because of the CVT history I made them aware of.
(Why Mazda and not another manufacturer? Because they like the way it looks)


Well, at least they picked a highly reliable vehicle that will have no engine or transmission issues within the life they want to keep it for. Picking the CX5 on looks will probably end up being one of the best new car purchase decisions they ever made.

 

[mazdamonky]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Mazdas still have a traditional automatic transmission.


And insanely good ones at that. I have pretty much sworn off automatic transmission as I am a sporty driver and just really thing a standard is a lot of fun. But the auto Mazda 3 is actually has a fairly decent feeling transmission with really good shift points, especially in sport mode. On top of that, most people's experience is it somehow manages considerably better fuel economy on the freeway than the manual version. I ended up with an Auto Mazda 3 and I am actually not regretting it thus far.