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Why People Dislike a CVT
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Then you have the chain/cone types which are slow to shift down usually.
When I use the paddle shifters, my Forester shifts about as fast as I would in a manual. And, unlike the manual, there's still power during the shift as the engine is never disconnected from the wheels.
Then you have the chain/cone types which are slow to shift down usually.
When I use the paddle shifters, my Forester shifts about as fast as I would in a manual. And, unlike the manual, there's still power during the shift as the engine is never disconnected from the wheels.
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Then you have the chain/cone types which are slow to shift down usually.
When I use the paddle shifters, my Forester shifts about as fast as I would in a manual. And, unlike the manual, there's still power during the shift as the engine is never disconnected from the wheels.
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Then you have the chain/cone types which are slow to shift down usually.
When I use the paddle shifters, my Forester shifts about as fast as I would in a manual. And, unlike the manual, there's still power during the shift as the engine is never disconnected from the wheels.
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
You don't have to own one to hate one. In my case, I spent enough time driving my father's Impreza when my mom was sick, to know enough not to buy a car with one. Or drive a few rentals equipped with one. And finally speak to people who own them and like or hate them, that was more than enough to keep me away. The good news is the vehicles I currently like don't come with a CVT, so if I were in the market for a new car I'd be OK in that department.
I usually do my research first before buying, in the case of the CVT it was easy, I just drove my father's for a while. That helps reduce disappointment, problems, and lost money trying to sell or trade out of a mistake.
I usually do my research first before buying, in the case of the CVT it was easy, I just drove my father's for a while. That helps reduce disappointment, problems, and lost money trying to sell or trade out of a mistake.
We've been kicking the idea around to get a nice, fuel efficient, sedan and unload one of our Pick-ups. I looked at Nissan Altimas first because of the discounts they were offering. I just couldn't bring myself to jump on one because of the CVT issues they have had, and the less than stellar support people received from Nissan, and the dealerships themselves. We're now looking at Camrys mainly because they are not equipped with a CVT. But this poses it's own obstacles, mainly having to deal with, at least in our area, the SE Toyota Distributors and the bogus non-factory charges and add-ons they include which can inflate the sticker price to where it becomes almost prohibitive for some.
I drove the WRX with the CVT and in Sport Mode it was fantastic. I was impressed. The only other CVT I have driven was a Forester and it was OK.
Why the CVT is the perfect Transmission
Why the CVT is the perfect Transmission
1. They are slow I guess so, although you'd never know it from our newer Forester which would probably give our '12 Accord a run for its money 0-100.
2. I question reliability Many thousands of CVT Subies have been built to date and they have about the highest residual values you'll find. Pretty good for a junk tranny. An entire generation of four cylinder Accords were built with CVTs and you don't hear much bad about them either.
3. I don't like the better gas mileage they deliver Yeah, better fuel economy does suck. What sensible person would prefer the 31 mpg we see with our '17 Forester to the 25 mpg the '09 delivers?
4. I dislike the fact that I cannot hear them shift. Well, sure. Everyone prefers the constant gear hunting that you get with a tall geared 8 spd conventional automatic.
5. They are too "newfangled"Yeah, all this new stuff that delivers better fuel economy along with better performance has to have a catch somewhere. Let's bring back three on the tree, distributor ignition with points and carburetors. Then you'd have a real car again, right?
2. I question reliability Many thousands of CVT Subies have been built to date and they have about the highest residual values you'll find. Pretty good for a junk tranny. An entire generation of four cylinder Accords were built with CVTs and you don't hear much bad about them either.
3. I don't like the better gas mileage they deliver Yeah, better fuel economy does suck. What sensible person would prefer the 31 mpg we see with our '17 Forester to the 25 mpg the '09 delivers?
4. I dislike the fact that I cannot hear them shift. Well, sure. Everyone prefers the constant gear hunting that you get with a tall geared 8 spd conventional automatic.
5. They are too "newfangled"Yeah, all this new stuff that delivers better fuel economy along with better performance has to have a catch somewhere. Let's bring back three on the tree, distributor ignition with points and carburetors. Then you'd have a real car again, right?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
Yes, though I don't think you get them in the US.
The higher-end Forester and Impreza models up here have a 6-speed manual mode, the Forester XT and WRX have 6-speed and 8-speed modes. That said, it will still vary the ratio in manual mode if it thinks it needs to (and it downshifts automatically to prevent stalling).
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
Yes, though I don't think you get them in the US.
The higher-end Forester and Impreza models up here have a 6-speed manual mode, the Forester XT and WRX have 6-speed and 8-speed modes. That said, it will still vary the ratio in manual mode if it thinks it needs to (and it downshifts automatically to prevent stalling).
Originally Posted By: DaRider34
Well are cvt's more fuel efficient than dct's?
CVT's used to be more efficient 10 years ago, but as more gears are typical these days with the newer 7-speed+ DCTs and other automatics, its all about the same.
Originally Posted By: DaRider34
And why are most cvt's programmed to behave like automatics with stepped gears?
Purely psychological. I remember reading several car reviews over the years saying things like "the CVT drone is annoying" and "it seems disconnected from speed" and "the CVT motorboats", etc., things like that. (The "motorboating" comment was particularly not true, as it describes a stalled condition in boat propellors not getting thrust.)
Some people said CVT's simply don't 'feel right' to them.
I always saw them for what they are: optimizing the torque & RPM combination for best fuel economy and power when you need it.
Well are cvt's more fuel efficient than dct's?
CVT's used to be more efficient 10 years ago, but as more gears are typical these days with the newer 7-speed+ DCTs and other automatics, its all about the same.
Originally Posted By: DaRider34
And why are most cvt's programmed to behave like automatics with stepped gears?
Purely psychological. I remember reading several car reviews over the years saying things like "the CVT drone is annoying" and "it seems disconnected from speed" and "the CVT motorboats", etc., things like that. (The "motorboating" comment was particularly not true, as it describes a stalled condition in boat propellors not getting thrust.)
Some people said CVT's simply don't 'feel right' to them.
I always saw them for what they are: optimizing the torque & RPM combination for best fuel economy and power when you need it.
Yes. I'm glad we bought a Forester with a real CVT, as it seems the new ones have fake shifts in auto mode when there's no engineering reason to do so and it actively harms performance.
Makes about as much sense as including a buggy whip with every Model-T because not having to whip the horses doesn't seem right.
Makes about as much sense as including a buggy whip with every Model-T because not having to whip the horses doesn't seem right.
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
We've been kicking the idea around to get a nice, fuel efficient, sedan and unload one of our Pick-ups. I looked at Nissan Altimas first because of the discounts they were offering. I just couldn't bring myself to jump on one because of the CVT issues they have had, and the less than stellar support people received from Nissan, and the dealerships themselves. We're now looking at Camrys mainly because they are not equipped with a CVT. But this poses it's own obstacles, mainly having to deal with, at least in our area, the SE Toyota Distributors and the bogus non-factory charges and add-ons they include which can inflate the sticker price to where it becomes almost prohibitive for some.
If you are looking for a Toyota in North Georgia, try Cobb County Toyota or Cherokee County Toyota. Both dealers are the same company. They do not have "dealer fees" and they do not add on fluff such as nitrogen in the tires or any of those phony protection packages that a lot of dealers try to sell you. I have purchased several vehicles from them and every one has been a pleasant experience.
We've been kicking the idea around to get a nice, fuel efficient, sedan and unload one of our Pick-ups. I looked at Nissan Altimas first because of the discounts they were offering. I just couldn't bring myself to jump on one because of the CVT issues they have had, and the less than stellar support people received from Nissan, and the dealerships themselves. We're now looking at Camrys mainly because they are not equipped with a CVT. But this poses it's own obstacles, mainly having to deal with, at least in our area, the SE Toyota Distributors and the bogus non-factory charges and add-ons they include which can inflate the sticker price to where it becomes almost prohibitive for some.
If you are looking for a Toyota in North Georgia, try Cobb County Toyota or Cherokee County Toyota. Both dealers are the same company. They do not have "dealer fees" and they do not add on fluff such as nitrogen in the tires or any of those phony protection packages that a lot of dealers try to sell you. I have purchased several vehicles from them and every one has been a pleasant experience.
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
Yes, though I don't think you get them in the US.
The higher-end Forester and Impreza models up here have a 6-speed manual mode, the Forester XT and WRX have 6-speed and 8-speed modes. That said, it will still vary the ratio in manual mode if it thinks it needs to (and it downshifts automatically to prevent stalling).
I had paddle shifters on my 2016 Altima. Played with them a couple of times but never really used them.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
Yes, though I don't think you get them in the US.
The higher-end Forester and Impreza models up here have a 6-speed manual mode, the Forester XT and WRX have 6-speed and 8-speed modes. That said, it will still vary the ratio in manual mode if it thinks it needs to (and it downshifts automatically to prevent stalling).
I had paddle shifters on my 2016 Altima. Played with them a couple of times but never really used them.
Thanks Chunk. I have actually contacted both. I think they are owned by the same people. I like that they have no dealer fees. But they still have the SE Toyota nonsense added. Due to distance, I haven't had the chance to visit them in person. We did discuss my Sierra as a trade and it wasn't very promising from that perspective.
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
Yes, though I don't think you get them in the US.
The higher-end Forester and Impreza models up here have a 6-speed manual mode, the Forester XT and WRX have 6-speed and 8-speed modes. That said, it will still vary the ratio in manual mode if it thinks it needs to (and it downshifts automatically to prevent stalling).
The XT in the U.S. has them. Gear ratios 1 to 8. Also the S# Sports mode kiks up the rpms a bit and also step shifts gears 1 to 8.
The XT is quicker than the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Chev, Ford, Chrysler by quite a bit. And is on a par with the BMW's class of SUV's. I believe the Hyundai SantFe Sport has the 2.0 Turbo also.
The 2.0 Turbos of any brand are nice. I believe Honda gets over 300HP out of theirs but does not put it in the CRV.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Paddle shifters with a CVT?
Yes, though I don't think you get them in the US.
The higher-end Forester and Impreza models up here have a 6-speed manual mode, the Forester XT and WRX have 6-speed and 8-speed modes. That said, it will still vary the ratio in manual mode if it thinks it needs to (and it downshifts automatically to prevent stalling).
The XT in the U.S. has them. Gear ratios 1 to 8. Also the S# Sports mode kiks up the rpms a bit and also step shifts gears 1 to 8.
The XT is quicker than the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Chev, Ford, Chrysler by quite a bit. And is on a par with the BMW's class of SUV's. I believe the Hyundai SantFe Sport has the 2.0 Turbo also.
The 2.0 Turbos of any brand are nice. I believe Honda gets over 300HP out of theirs but does not put it in the CRV.
I hate the rubber band feel. I just can't get over the engine racing up the rpm's and then holding and adjusting. I will say that Honda's cvt is very good it seems, but give me a traditional auto any day.
The engineering does not factor in the cost of maintenance. A friend of mine had a Nissan Rogue and the CVT failure could have costed him upwards of $5,000 and that's a minimum.
Re-building a traditional automatic transmission costs less. Buying a used automatic transmission plus labour could cost a lot less.
There is innovation and invention, and there is re-inventing the wheel. I think CVT is the latter.
Re-building a traditional automatic transmission costs less. Buying a used automatic transmission plus labour could cost a lot less.
There is innovation and invention, and there is re-inventing the wheel. I think CVT is the latter.
Especially when a band type CVT failure occurs like in a Nissan. It causes it to spew the metal teeth from the band all over and essentially grenades the transmission with lots of internal damage. With a regular transmission it's typically component failure that does cause massive amounts of damage to casings and other parts and it can usually be rebuilt for minimal cost.
Around 21 minutes in the first video you can see the teeth.
Around 21 minutes in the first video you can see the teeth.
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