Why I buy American

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Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: GMFan
The most American and patriotic thing is buying a car based on the principles of competition...based on quality, refinement and whether it suits your needs.

Perhaps the most 'un-American' thing is attacking those who do what any sensible person does with their money...spend it how THEY see fit.


Precisely! I couldn't care less what kind of car/truck anyone else buys. As for where it's made, how big/small, bad/good fuel economy- it's not my purchase or my business- and all I ask is that people accord me the same courtesy...


Whenever the economy is hurting you will always get the small minority who will preach protectionist ideology and look negatively on anything foreign. That is the great thing about living in N/A. The freedom to drive anything you want without being forced to drive or buy products you do not want. Personal preference folks. Yours is no better than mine or the next persons.
 
No one is denying anyone the right to buy/use anything by voicing an opinion. Like on why it is better, for example, to buy American(or whatever country). Where that "they're forcing me to do/not do it" rhetoric comes from, I can't figure out.

You won't see this discussion in the protectionist countries, which are most of the others, because they all understand protecting ones country is sort of good for oneself in this dog eat dog world.
 
Originally Posted By: GMFan
The most American and patriotic thing is buying a car based on the principles of competition...based on quality, refinement and whether it suits your needs.

Perhaps the most 'un-American' thing is attacking those who do what any sensible person does with their money...spend it how THEY see fit.

Agreed. This is what American manufacturers are doing. Why can't the American public do the same thing?
 
And that's the point. If it's OK for any "domestic" automaker to source parts globally, then it equally fine for consumers to source entire cars from the global market place.

After all, if Chrysler is now largely held by Fiat, are they no longer domestic? After all, I've heard from folks regarding where the profits go, where the engineering is done, and other concerns raised.

So doesn't that mean that since Chrysler is largely held by Fiat that profits and engineering is going to HQ?

Of course the answer to that is to buy stock or ADR's of the companies.

If you want profits from Honda, Toyota, or Nissan to stay here in the US, buy their ADR issues and the profits stay right here.

Someone else has said what I say in these discussions. The most patriotic thing to do is to buy what best suits the needs of you and your family regardless where it's made. That sends the economic signal to those who build cars what it takes to win you over as a buyer.
 
If you want to know what protectionist policies will do, all you need to do is look at what already exists as protectionist:

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/01/big-sugar-cartel-cost-consumers-45b.html

There has been a tariff on imported sugar for decades. As such, we all pay significantly more for sugar than the rest of the world. If we put tariffs on "imported" cars, we will all pay more for the cars. There is nowhere else for the price to go.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
And that's the point. If it's OK for any "domestic" automaker to source parts globally, then it equally fine for consumers to source entire cars from the global market place.

After all, if Chrysler is now largely held by Fiat, are they no longer domestic? After all, I've heard from folks regarding where the profits go, where the engineering is done, and other concerns raised.

So doesn't that mean that since Chrysler is largely held by Fiat that profits and engineering is going to HQ?

Of course the answer to that is to buy stock or ADR's of the companies.

If you want profits from Honda, Toyota, or Nissan to stay here in the US, buy their ADR issues and the profits stay right here.

Someone else has said what I say in these discussions. The most patriotic thing to do is to buy what best suits the needs of you and your family regardless where it's made. That sends the economic signal to those who build cars what it takes to win you over as a buyer.


I don't think it's OK for domestic companies to outsource. I think the difference is whether you are a working person of limited means (or even many types of small business owners)or do you have great wealth and live off of stock wealth or selling imported goods. Which group you are in determines what benefits you the most economical. That and whether you have any concern for the domestic economy and position of other working class people. There are a lot of working class people who arguing for what benefits the wall st class.
 
Originally Posted By: crw
If you want to know what protectionist policies will do, all you need to do is look at what already exists as protectionist:

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/01/big-sugar-cartel-cost-consumers-45b.html

There has been a tariff on imported sugar for decades. As such, we all pay significantly more for sugar than the rest of the world. If we put tariffs on "imported" cars, we will all pay more for the cars. There is nowhere else for the price to go.


Putting a tariff on any needed raw material isn't really protectionism. That's really just a subsidy for a special interest or small sector. It should be about similar finished goods and low labor cost countries. As far as automobiles we've allowed certain countries to trade with us who have protectionism in their own auto industry. That doesn't seem fair or particularly smart. And if they put a transplant here, that gets looked on as a favor and tax breaks and subsidies are given.
 
I've heard some say that the influx of quality japanese cars back around the early 80s was one of the best things for the automotive buying public. It forced Detroit to start competing by abandoning their old ways of engineering and manufacturing, and start adding quality, thriftiness, and value to their products. It was a real wakeup call.

There was talk of adding tariffs to protect our steel industry from imports. This was a double-edged sword that would both benefit and hurt consumers. It would have boosted our steel industry, but our automobile industry, which buys most of its steel from overseas, would have had to pay more for their raw product, and pass these costs on to the consumers. So it would have been a wash.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I've heard some say that the influx of quality japanese cars back around the early 80s was one of the best things for the automotive buying public. It forced Detroit to start competing by abandoning their old ways of engineering and manufacturing, and start adding quality, thriftiness, and value to their products. It was a real wakeup call.

There was talk of adding tariffs to protect our steel industry from imports. This was a double-edged sword that would both benefit and hurt consumers. It would have boosted our steel industry, but our automobile industry, which buys most of its steel from overseas, would have had to pay more for their raw product, and pass these costs on to the consumers. So it would have been a wash.

It sort of is a wash, except you have domestic steel capacity if things go bad in the foreign relations dept...
Of course China and India can makes steel cheaper but then you rely/need China and India to play nice all the time.
 
I agree. That's the kicker. What if there is a national emergency and we need to gear up quickly for steel production? Considering the capital required - even for just modernization - things like that don't happen overnight. An open and free market is all well and good, but we need to protect our country in times of emergency.
 
One more point, my '04 Subaru Legacy is a much nicer car than anything the domestics were putting out in '04, in that price range/class of car. Its a lot of car for the money + awd = no brainer.
 
I remember during the Double Dip recession in early 1990s the newspapers were full of pictures of Joe Lunch Box working on a small Honda with a sledge hammer. The same Joe I just observed in a Sears buying the cheapest China made wrench instead of a quality Craftsman Pro that is still made in USA..
The same Joe better learn the alphabet and how to add two single-digit numbers without a calculator. We had it too easy for too long, time for cycles to correct this. A checkout person in my WalMart had hard time to come up with a change that was calculated by the machine for him. No wonder, USA is currently in decline.
 
Without getting into whether Japanese cars of the 80's and 90's were really overall better or not, I have to wonder if they didn't get preferential treatment to domestics competing in the US market. We had several US auto manufactures providing domestic competition that came and gone over the years. The Japanese automakers seem to have had more support from their government and were given more US tax subsidies while operating under a protectionist market at home.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The Japanese automakers seem to have had more support from their government and were given more US tax subsidies while operating under a protectionist market at home.


Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
 
Lol then why would it be wrong for the US to do that, be protectionist and subsidize its auto industry? It seems like a double standard.
 
Not really.

Whats with all this pandering and cheerleading for American manufacturing ?
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Not really.

Whats with all this pandering and cheerleading for American manufacturing ?
21.gif




To say it's ok for Japan to be protectionist at home, and not let US automakers compete, and give them subsidies, but then when the US does it, it's wrong? How is that not a double standard?
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Not really.

Whats with all this pandering and cheerleading for American manufacturing ?
21.gif




Because the current biggest employer in the US is Walmart. That menas that overall, the industry that employs the most people in this country is RETAIL. If that is not sad, then I don't know what is. We need manufacturing jobs if we are to survive. We cannot live being a service industry only country.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Not really.

Whats with all this pandering and cheerleading for American manufacturing ?
21.gif




To say it's ok for Japan to be protectionist at home, and not let US automakers compete, and give them subsidies, but then when the US does it, it's wrong? How is that not a double standard?


Wow...makes you wonder why even bother eh?
 
For the record: I have owned stock in WMT for the past 15 years and I think its a great company. I worked retail when I was 14 years old ($3.25 an hour back then) and theres nothing wrong with that type of job. If you don't like it get some schooling and go onto a better job with better pay. Don't complain that you are at a dead end job with low pay and high stress.

What gets my blood boiling is that all these Pro Union folks are now blaming other countries for the loss of jobs and industries here in the USA but will not take any blame for slowing destroying our country over the past 40 years.

Labor Unions accomplished exactly what the Communists couldn't do..... destroy our great nation.
 
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