why ever use 5W30 or 10W30?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

this is an interesting reply i got from royal purple :

"I forgot to address your other question. We are not planning to add a 0w30 motor oil. There are no vehicles that I am aware of that spec a 0W-30, and there is little advantage of a 0w30 over a 5w30 except in the coldest of environments."

what about turbocharged applications? GC seems to be about the only A3 rated 30wt which is odd as even redline's 0w30 has a HTHS of only 3.2

 

[ltslimjim]

I'm planning on switching my father's S10 over to 10w30 Rotella during this summer.

 

[SuperFast]

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int..._syntec_usa.pdf

HTHS on 0W-30, 5w30 and 10w30 is 2.9

what is a "normal" HTHS and what is an example of a high HTHS and low HTHS for the three grades we are talking about in this thread, 0w30 5w30 and 10w30?

as for me, seriously considering GC next OC. very much so. or mixing it in to HM oil, GC

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Garak, you're talking about a 10-30 dino not a synthetic.
Also you're using oil consumption as the gauge of what oil is "better" and quite frankly that's the last criterion I use to judge a lubricant.


Okay, you caught me. I wasn't able to swing the conventional past you or gloss over it.

When it comes to 10w30 synthetic, I am certainly more inclined to believe it to be more obsolete than conventional 10w30. Aside from someone who is speced to run 10w30 yet wants to extend his OCIs, there is little advantage to synthetic 10w30. Considering most vehicles speced for 10w30 are long out of warranty, it's quite likely they could switch to some sort of 0w-xx or 5w-xx without any concerns, too.

As for my criterion as to which oil is "better," the consumption is only part of it. Granted, I'm not about to pay $10 per litre to burn GC just for the giggles of it. There certainly are synthetics I can think of that it doesn't consume (i.e. RP 0w-40 and Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40).

However, conventional is appropriate for this engine, and 10w30 is a recommended grade for the current ambient conditions. Even when it's -40 C out here, my engine oil seldom has the opportunity to fall below 0 C, and is usually 10 C or above, since it's stored in a heated shop almost exclusively.

Everything from a 0w-20 to about a 10w30 are speced to -20 C in the engine, with 5w30 and xw-20 down to the lowest temperatures that can be encountered. No, I don't think 10w30 is absolutely optimal in the coldest conditions, and if it were stored outside, I'd probably either live with the consumption in a 5w30 or splurge for a 0w-40 or 5w-40. So really, my decision to use 10w30 is based upon what will pump well enough when it is sitting outside for half an hour to an hour or so, yet will also reduce consumption.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hoosier_Daddy
this is an interesting reply i got from royal purple :

"I forgot to address your other question. We are not planning to add a 0w30 motor oil. There are no vehicles that I am aware of that spec a 0W-30, and there is little advantage of a 0w30 over a 5w30 except in the coldest of environments."


That is interesting. Considering they forgo the latest API and ILSAC certifications on most available grades, their answer is somewhat lacking. They still sell 10w30 and 10w-40, and I can't think of a lot of vehicles in North America still under warranty that require those grades, either, along with the API specs of SL on those grades.

There certainly are a lot of classic car aficionados that like RP because it is a synthetic with a higher ZDDP content, and the 10w30 meets original specifications. However, one would think that a RP 0w30 would have a market. Perhaps they would direct such people to the 5w30, 5w-40, or 0w-40. I don't know.

 

[addyguy]

Some thoughts on why 10w30 will stay around:

In diesel circles, it is becoming 'the next thing' in oils getting thinner - folks switching from 15w40 conventional to a 10w30 HDEO. Some want to go thinner, but definetly DON'T want to go synthetic - 10w30 HDEO is their oil.

I could see it where PCMO 10w30 disappears, and you just have 10w30 HDEO - same way you pretty well only have 15w40 HDEO, no PCMO's in that grade.

Also, the HM oil market is doing fairly well, and as economic conditions worsen, may get bigger with people hanging onto old cars. 10w30 HDEO is a good grade for folks getting lots of oil consumption - people now see it as the 'thick' grade.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

I would absolutely NOT run a 0w unless you are doing a lot of sub zero starts, It will do nothing for you and work against you v. warmer clime winter multigrades. (rated)


This comes up so often that I think it needs to be addressed. This just isn't true. A 0W oil is closer to operating temperature at any ambient temps, not just sub zero. ...
Sure a 0W or 5W oil may have a higher percentage of VI's and higher burn-off under laboratory conditions ....
You have to be OIL specific and not generalize. GC 0w30 and AFE are 2 different animals. You statement would not apply to the GC v. let say the SM Havoine dino.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Truth is there are very few 0w30 options available.
There's M1 which is excellent but what else.
GC is not as good as it once was and with a VI of only 167 most 5w30's are lighter at all temp's except extreme cold.


Im considering GC, as long as it doesnt turn my engine into a "leaker." add some MMO in the GC (thats unique to me, cleaning desired) - if it doesnt leak i should be ok, switching FROM Hi-mi 10w30 bend w MMO.
Why is a VI of "only" 167 bad? and how did GC deteriorate in quality?

Its getting reformulated next month, to the same specs as present GC (new name so if formulation changed and secs didnt its still like old GC w new formulation)

Many years ago the original "green" GC was a PAO complex ester blend with a VI of 175 IIRC. The current "Gold" version is still likely largely PAO based but the VI of 167 is lower than the 5w30's from Castrol Edge, M1, PP and PU just to name four popular oils.
The lower the VI of an oil the faster it will thicken up as the temperature drops from 100C down to -10C if not more.
The four 5w30's I mentioned are all much lighter than GC down to
at least -10C. Even M1 0W-40 with it's VI of 185 is lighter than GC at all temp's below 25C. I suspect that is the reason in part why it is no longer on Porsche's approved oil list.

If you want to use a heavier 30wt oil with the same 3.5cP HTHS vis' as GC I'd suggest a 55/45 blend of M1 0W-40 and AFE 0W-30.
The net result would be a heavy 183 VI 0w30 with vastly improved cold start performance.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

If you want to use a heavier 30wt oil with the same 3.5cP HTHS vis' as GC I'd suggest a 55/45 blend of M1 0W-40 and AFE 0W-30.
The net result would be a heavy 183 VI 0w30 with vastly improved cold start performance.


that's a great idea!

 

[crinkles]

i'll stick to my 15w40 from now on.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int..._syntec_usa.pdf

HTHS on 0W-30, 5w30 and 10w30 is 2.9

what is a "normal" HTHS and what is an example of a high HTHS and low HTHS for the three grades we are talking about in this thread, 0w30 5w30 and 10w30?

as for me, seriously considering GC next OC. very much so. or mixing it in to HM oil, GC


Don't be taken in by the inadequacy of Castrol's product data sheet. They don't actually list the tested values of their oil's HTHS's. If you look carefully, you will see they only list the minimum specification that is required by API specs. The most likely value for GC's HTHS is 3.5, based on specs from data sheets from other countries where GC is marketed.

 

[teddyboy]

CATERHAM,I've seen you suggest a blend of M1 0W40 and 0W30 in a couple of threads now. I've been running M1 10W30 in various iterations (M1, HM, EP) in my 97 Carmy for years with 5-6K ocis because of the potential for sludge. Would you argue that your suggested "0W40, 0W30 blend" would do a better job?

 

[CATERHAM]

M1 0W-40 is a Long Life oil that can easily go 15k.
But 5-6k OCI's should be no problem with M1 AFE 0w30 alone.
For your 97 Camry, you don't need a heavier oil than AFE. I would go with that oil straight up.

 

[teddyboy]

When I use up the M110W30 HM for my next oil change, I may switch. I share the sentiment that XOM's best technology is going into their 0W oils. Thanks for the input.