I also take viscosity into account when considering which is more likely to cling to metal surfaces after the engine is shut down. If you were to heat 2 different weights of oil (let's say 5W20 and 10W30 to 180 degrees) and dip a piece of billet aluminum in each. Which oil is likely to leave an thicker film on the aluminum when you pull it out of the oil? Which one is likely to drain off and leave little or no film behind? Will they both drain off to the same film thickness? If so, which one will take longer to do so? Discuss.
why change oil from what is recommended?
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In response to Drew99GT, I do remember during particularly cold Wyoming winters, you could drive your car all over town all day, stop, raise the hood and lay your hand on the valve cover. I've done it (for a good reason, I assure you....not just to see if I could). Also, a lot of the cars I owned while living there had electric radiator fans which never even kicked on while driving in winter. When summer arrived, they ran all the time. I even remember one particularly cold night when I warmed up my Civic, drove to the grocery store, and without really noticing, parked it with the nose facing into the wind and left it locked and running while I shopped. When I returned to the car, the temp needle had returned to "C".
Ambient temps surely have to affect oil in the same way it affects coolant.
Ambient temps surely have to affect oil in the same way it affects coolant.
Why change from factory specs?
First, these are my vehicles and I can do what I feel is best.
I might run:
-the cheapest or the most expensive oil ,
-thicker or thinner oil,
-mimimum spec, better than spec, or target spec oil,
-conventional, blend, or full synthetic,
-no additives, lots of additives, special brews of oils or additives, HDEO oil, older spec oil with more ZDDP etc.
-short intervals, long intervals, cheap filters, premium filters, bypass filters etc. etc.
There's more than one way operate a vehicle...and that is our choice.
I like cost effective tuner vehicles.. so I usually upgrade every vehicle in many ways.
Whever possible I try to choose the best oil for the vehicle and how it is driven, and suited to the conditions and best maintenance options for where it is driven.
If I'm convinced the manufacturer already chose the best oil, then I follow their specifications.
First, these are my vehicles and I can do what I feel is best.
I might run:
-the cheapest or the most expensive oil ,
-thicker or thinner oil,
-mimimum spec, better than spec, or target spec oil,
-conventional, blend, or full synthetic,
-no additives, lots of additives, special brews of oils or additives, HDEO oil, older spec oil with more ZDDP etc.
-short intervals, long intervals, cheap filters, premium filters, bypass filters etc. etc.
There's more than one way operate a vehicle...and that is our choice.
I like cost effective tuner vehicles.. so I usually upgrade every vehicle in many ways.
Whever possible I try to choose the best oil for the vehicle and how it is driven, and suited to the conditions and best maintenance options for where it is driven.
If I'm convinced the manufacturer already chose the best oil, then I follow their specifications.
thatwouldbegreat hit it right on the nose and i may add i firmly believe in preventive maint...
Well I was getting a slight rough idle on one of my vehicles and thought maybe if I went just a tad thicker, it would cure it. Well it did, but there's still the posibility that the engine didn't like the winter blend gasoline.
I would suggest you are doing it right already. There is no advantage of using a 10w30 over a 5w30 other than to save a few pennies. It is cheaper to produce a 10w30 oil, and sometimes the mfg will pass the saving on to you.
The advantage of a synthetic over conventional, besides cold weather starting, is consistency of performance over the time between oil changes. Synthetics need less additives to achieve the same performance levels, so are less susceptible to deterioration. Is it worth the premium? I guess everyone needs to judge for themselves. However I think this is only a valid debate between a good conventional oil and a reasonable priced synthetic. These ultra priced synthetics no make no sense at all to me. Just my opinion.
I forget whether it was here or on a dog forum I brought up Yogi Bear. The average bear runs what the manual says for the local conditions. Yogi, being smarter than the average bear runs thicker, thinner, something somehow different.
Yes you said that over on the filter board, but I didn't want to be rude and ask: what in cotton pick'en tarnation is your point?
Just run Amsoil 10W-30 and don't worry about it. Use the full synthetic forumla. It flows at -58F and you should not be getting quite that cold for some time.. unless there is a global chill down I'm unaware of, or you drive around in a freezer a lot.. LOL
Seriously, the Amsoil has phenominal heat range from low to high. Stay's stable, and the volatility is quite low, good for nice hot summers!.
Seriously, the Amsoil has phenominal heat range from low to high. Stay's stable, and the volatility is quite low, good for nice hot summers!.
Pour point is not the only measure of cold weather performance and probably not the best. Cold cranking viscosity is more realistic, as is borderline pumping capacity, and the synthetics like Amsoil don't always do so well there. If you compare for example Amsoil 5w30 to a PetroCan severly hydrocracked synthetic on CCS Amsoil comes in at 5254, and PetroCan at 3404 (lower is better). Thoughts on the board are that this PetroCan oil is sold by Walmart as the Tech2000 house brand in Canada.
So I think the cold weather performance of these group IV synthetics may not be what many think they are. Agree with the lower volatility advantage though.
http://www.petro-canada.ca/eng/prodserv/lubesgreases/pdf/im7978e0410.pdf
[ September 02, 2006, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Ron AKA ]
Need to be careful. Amsoil still uses ASTM D-2602.
Amsoil for awhile was bouncing back and forth between two different Noak tests. Something you have keep an eye out for with their testing. For example check out the 0w-30 vs the 5w-30 ASL. If it's the same test, why not label it as such? One is using the ASTM 5800 method, vs the DIN 51851.
Yes they do make it difficult to compare. Also they do not post the borderline pumping viscosity (ASTM D5684).
Honestly it drives me crazy. I just shot them another nastygram.
Buster,
As I have posted several times (were you sleeping?) those Noack tests are the same. The Noack test was originally developed in Europe and Amsoil was the first US oil formulator to use it on a regular basis. The DIN is sort of the European equivalent of the ASTM. When this test was adopted by the ASTM as a standard, they designated it ASTM 5800.
Feel free to waste some time and do a lit search...
Of more relavance, the Amsoil 5w-30 has a VI of 178 and pumps very well at cold temps.
TS
As I have posted several times (were you sleeping?) those Noack tests are the same. The Noack test was originally developed in Europe and Amsoil was the first US oil formulator to use it on a regular basis. The DIN is sort of the European equivalent of the ASTM. When this test was adopted by the ASTM as a standard, they designated it ASTM 5800.
Feel free to waste some time and do a lit search...
Of more relavance, the Amsoil 5w-30 has a VI of 178 and pumps very well at cold temps.
TS
Ted, not out to sleep, were you? Then why don't they label them as the same? Look, very few people "pick nits" like we do, but giving the customer the most standardized data would be more acceptable.
We live in the U.S. not Europa.
All of these specs really are meaningless. Very few of us wake up to -50F temps and very few see temps above 110F. The bottom line for the most part is "oil is oil". It's all overkill. I would be that we are the only people to even notice these small insignificant discrepancies. It really doesn't matter....
We live in the U.S. not Europa.
All of these specs really are meaningless. Very few of us wake up to -50F temps and very few see temps above 110F. The bottom line for the most part is "oil is oil". It's all overkill. I would be that we are the only people to even notice these small insignificant discrepancies. It really doesn't matter....
There is a thermostat and radiator in the coolant system.
There is no thermostat or radiator in the oil system.
Oil runs much hotter in summer than winter.
There is no thermostat or radiator in the oil system.
Oil runs much hotter in summer than winter.
Ted - how close in the old ASTM D-2602 to 5293?
Except it is the coolant system that primarily cools the oil system. The hot part of the engine (cylinders) and the source of heat is surrounded by coolant, and that really does not change from summer to winter if the rad, fan, pump, & thermostat all works as it should. The only time oil temperature should rise significantly above normal is if the cooling system is maxed out.
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